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HEROES 3x05 "Angels and Monsters" Discuss and Grade

Grade the Episode


  • Total voters
    76
When Hiro protests that Daphne shouldn't be able to move, because he stopped time, she replies, "Well, you don't stop it completely, or we aren't having this conversation." Gives a glimpse into the writers' intentions anyway. Perhaps they realized the difficulties mentioned above with stopping time completely, and chose this way to deal with it. Hiro stops time in a practical sense - it still moves infinitely slowly, but not enough to be noticeable on a human level. And Daphne, who moves faster than humans can percieve, can adjust her own speed to be able to interact with Hiro.
 
The answer to the Hiro thing is that this is a fictional story -- much the same way that Nathan can fly without anything spewing out of him (for conservation of momentum). Now, that being said, I'm a nerd and I like to dissect things even though they are totally impossible: So, the real problems with Hiro's power: if he's stopping time, then light wouldn't reach him and he'd be blind. Also, since everything around him is frozen, he wouldn't be able to breathe. The only solution to the latter is if he has some kind of aura, so everything that surrounds him starts to move again, which would explain how he can manipulate a bullet hanging in mid-air. We also have a question/problem with range: is Hiro stopping time locally, meaning in his particular city, country, or planet, or is it universe-wide? Since he proves that it's possible to stop time, what about natural phenomena or other beings somewhere else in the universe? Are they affected? Alerted to the fact that he exists? Can he detect them when they do their own time stopping thing? With regard to his teleportation, how can he open a passage somewhere without actual coordinates, like when he traveled to New York? Even subconsciously, he doesn't know that Times Square is exactly X miles at 47.5 degrees from his present position. So, does he have mind powers as well? Does he reach out with psychic powers, get a lock on a particular location, then travel there? So many problems with all of their powers ... best not to think about them ...


It's fine that Hiro's powers don't take into account actual physics. I'm willing to suspend that belief.

But, the writers should have a consistent explanation and definition to Hiro's powers. They should understand how in the universe of show the powers work and they should STICK to it.

It seems everyone's powers adjust to what the plot requires and that's just bad writing.
 
"Arther Petrielli (Max Cherry), bail bondsman!" LOL.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the eclipse factors into all of this.
Supposedly it's the TSN turning point of the series.
As for good guys turning bad and vice verse, I'm all for it. Shake that shit up.
 
In season one when Hiro lost his confidence and was having trouble fully using his powers, he tried to "stop time" but all he did was slow it down. Everyone in the museum was moving in slow motion, but still moving. So that shows us that Hiro can adjust the rate of time passing, making it slower and slower (and probably faster and faster if he tried).
 
When Hiro protests that Daphne shouldn't be able to move, because he stopped time, she replies, "Well, you don't stop it completely, or we aren't having this conversation." Gives a glimpse into the writers' intentions anyway.

I'm really amazed so many people here missed that line. Even I foget about it but for some reason still thought about the slowing time thing!:lol:
 
Daphne reminds me of Chiana from Farscape. Same wig, same mannerisms. :lol:

Yup, I called that back in 3x01 grading. Though her hair looks less Chiana-esque now, and even less when she "died in Pac-Mans arms tonight" (must have been something she said) in the previous, could-be-future.

Well, up until Hiro killed Ando (WTF moment there), I completely lost interest. I only looked at the screen directly to see what they were saying. The WTF-Hiro moment and holo-Linderman are the only things that saved this from a below average from me.
 
In season one when Hiro lost his confidence and was having trouble fully using his powers, he tried to "stop time" but all he did was slow it down. Everyone in the museum was moving in slow motion, but still moving. So that shows us that Hiro can adjust the rate of time passing, making it slower and slower (and probably faster and faster if he tried).

Fast forwarding time would pretty much be time traveling to the future. If Hiro can travel forward and backward through time why is it hard for some people to believe that he can slow time down too?
 
"Arther Petrielli (Max Cherry), bail bondsman!" LOL.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the eclipse factors into all of this.
Supposedly it's the TSN turning point of the series.
As for good guys turning bad and vice verse, I'm all for it. Shake that shit up.

Is that the same actor who played Max Cherry? I'm going to have to go back and rewatch the end of this episode because I totally missed that.
 
I think for the first time in a long while I found myself interested in the Claire storyline; although her taking a Taser to subdue massively super-powered villains was typical head slapping silliness. I was also glad to see that Noah's memory is a a little more than ten seconds long and he would still opportunistically kill Sylar if given half a chance, no matter what stabs the latter makes at joining humanity.

There is no possible way Hiro killed Ando and time shifting shenanigans is certainly the answer.

Overall, there were some very interesting and promising ideas and twists introduced, but I still found it to be one of the lesser episodes.

Average.

If Mohinder would have killed Maya in a messy fashion, however, I would have given it an Excellent.
 
When Hiro protests that Daphne shouldn't be able to move, because he stopped time, she replies, "Well, you don't stop it completely, or we aren't having this conversation." Gives a glimpse into the writers' intentions anyway.

It gives a glimpse into their ability to rewrite the story logic on the fly as it suits their purposes at any given moment, that's for sure.

But it doesn't matter if Hiro only slows down time; Daphne wasn't using her powers when Hiro did his little killing-Ando magic trick so she wouldn't have a clue if he suddenly slowed down time. She couldn't perceive it unless she were using her own power at the time and Hiro didn't give her any advance warning.

The writers could use time travel as the excuse for the magic trick, but the main reason they wouldn't is because it would be hard to have Hiro explain for the benefit of the audience in a clear and concise fashion compared with stopping time.
Perhaps they realized the difficulties mentioned above with stopping time completely, and chose this way to deal with it.
You are being extremely generous. :D They don't give a damn about whether anything they write is possible. They just alter things this way and that depending on the needs of the story at any given time. Just look at how they've dragged Sylar all over tarnation...

And speaking of Sylar, I just remembered a little wtf moment, when he saved Claire from the vortex and said he could "feel her pain" when he touched her hand - referring to his removal of her scalp. Since when is Sylar an empath? Since when is Claire? Where did he get this from?

Or is his seeing power now interacting with the healing power and resulting in a whole new type of power? That's not a bad idea, except that I suspect it's yet another retcon for poor Sylar. He's being tamed down because now he's [Clinton drawl]feeling yore pain[/Clinton drawl]. Ah, something else for the Sylar-fundamentalists to howl about. :lol: He's gonna be Phil Donahue by the time they're through with him.
I thin your explanations of how Ando is not killed are to complicated for the writers of this show.
I think Hiro simply improvised without thinking it through (again).
He really stabs Ando, but in a non-vital spot with the intention to teleport him to a hospital as soon as the others leave the room.
That's still a pretty psychotic thing to do. Hiro is supposed to be sweet and cute. I don't buy him as the type who'd stab Ando for any reason, even if he thought he wouldn't die. (I also still don't buy Hiro being capable of burying Adam alive.)

And the writers have no issues with complicated scenarios. People are bailing on this show left and right due to it all being too complicated to keep straight.

It's fine that Hiro's powers don't take into account actual physics. I'm willing to suspend that belief.

But, the writers should have a consistent explanation and definition to Hiro's powers. They should understand how in the universe of show the powers work and they should STICK to it.

It seems everyone's powers adjust to what the plot requires and that's just bad writing.
Yeah that's the real issue here. We were lead to believe Hiro's powers do one thing and now they do something else, which would be okay except that 1) it's less cool the new way and 2) it's obviously just for the convenience of the plot, not because it's a good idea in and of itself.

If Mohinder would have killed Maya in a messy fashion, however, I would have given it an Excellent.

I think that's coming. Maya has no reason for existing other than to be some kind of breaking point for Spider-Mo. He kills her, snaps out of it, and descends into a guilt-ridden moral wallow, which takes him...somewhere. I dunno what the point of his story is.
 
I dunno what the point of his story is.

It's a cautionary tale to teach us the hubris of mankind's attempt to improve our lot through genetics...

wait...

Sorry. That's what it would be if the writers of the show were any good. Rather it's an attempt to rip-off the movie the "The Fly" (although I'm sure the writers would call it an "homage") and pass it off as being original to all the youngsters and viewers who are normally not horror fans and haven't seen the movie.

It's also some set up to show us another "level 5" type place where the company put all the freaks they accidentally created while originally trying to develop the formula.
 
I think Mo may become an anti-mutant crusader due to his horrific experiences with giving himself powers, which are his own damn fault so it will be hard to sympathize but somehow I don't think the guy is going to be killed off soon, and I guess the writers figured he needed an edge.

I kind of liked him being the idealistic doc who was trying to help everyone out of their various predicaments but I guess that isn't amped up enough for this show.
 
And speaking of Sylar, I just remembered a little wtf moment, when he saved Claire from the vortex and said he could "feel her pain" when he touched her hand - referring to his removal of her scalp. Since when is Sylar an empath? Since when is Claire? Where did he get this from?

Check out the girl that Angela Petrelli fed to Sylar a couple episodes ago. He's not quite an empath. Rather, he can experience a person's life via touch. I think Angela probably gave Sylar this ability because it would make it easier for him to change his perspective.
 
And speaking of Sylar, I just remembered a little wtf moment, when he saved Claire from the vortex and said he could "feel her pain" when he touched her hand - referring to his removal of her scalp. Since when is Sylar an empath? Since when is Claire? Where did he get this from?

Check out the girl that Angela Petrelli fed to Sylar a couple episodes ago. He's not quite an empath. Rather, he can experience a person's life via touch. I think Angela probably gave Sylar this ability because it would make it easier for him to change his perspective.

Ah, that's where it came from. I didn't pay much attention to her abilities cuz I thought she was just fodder. But if Sylar becomes more human, he'll be harder to control. I wonder if Angela was even thinking it through?
 
I gave it an Above Average, simply because I love the partnership between Noah and Sylar. I like how Sylar is embracing being a hero, though I'd like to see more of the why the change is happening--what's going on in Sylar's head? What's made him take this turn to fight against this need in him to kill? That's definitely keeping me hooked.

I'm less thrilled with Mohinder's descent into villainy...it's an awfully quick turn. And what's with the sticky webs? I'm still intrigued, but I hope they can sell his character's switcheroo a little better.

What I'm bored with is Hiro and Ando's adventures. It's three years in; what was charming and novel in the first season is kind of tired now. I don't need to see these two going back and forth about what it means to be a hero anymore. And that's my main problem with the show--I feel like a lot is recycled from earlier seasons.

I'm not going to give up on the show--I think some of the things about it feel very fresh. I love Sylar's turn, the way Peter is being overwhelmed with Sylar's powers, and Tracy, who is a much better character than Nikki ever was. But I wish the show would lose the formula of going into the future to introduce/enhance a threat to the present. I just think it's not necessary.
 
I like how Sylar is embracing being a hero, though I'd like to see more of the why the change is happening--what's going on in Sylar's head? What's made him take this turn to fight against this need in him to kill? That's definitely keeping me hooked.
There seem to be several factors going on at once:

1. The first time we saw him getting seriously freaked at his own murderousness, he ran home to mommy. Now he has met his real mommy, who fulfills his self-identity of being "special" by being the wealthy, powerful, glamorous leader of all this cool secret underground stuff, instead of some pathetic dweeb collecting snow globes and living in a slum. Finally, he's feeling less anxious about his own specialness, and less vulnerable to the hunger as a means of feeling "more special."

2. Angela fed him Empathy Girl, which is going to seriously screw up his ability to kill people with impunity going forward.

3. Realizing Peter, of all people, is now a psycho like him probably makes Sylar feel less like the evil was ever an essential part of him. If someone as good as Peter could turn bad that easily, what hope did he ever have? So now he has a reason to lose his self-image of being evil, which is the first step in fighting it - now it's an external thing to be battled.

4. His recent interactions with Angela and Noah are convincing him that the Company doesn't know what the frak it's doing. If the Company's idea of protecting the world leads to an innocent man being driven to suicide, that's just plain wrong. That might lead him to think that he could do better and try to take over, which gives him a goal in life other than braaaains...

5. Being invulerable probably makes him feel even more secure and strong enough to fight the hunger. It must be quite a rush to get your neck snapped and just put your head back on like it was nothing. (Nice visuals there, too.)

I always figured it would be a hard task for the writers to plausibly turn Sylar around, but they do seem to be making huge efforts in this direction. I bash this show a lot for sloppiness, but the writers are still pretty impressive in all the crap they throw into the story and half of the time it acutally works. :rommie: That and the stratospherically high slash quotient keeps me happy.
 
That's kind of interesting when you consider that Peter's primary ability is empathic. It's how and why he's able to mimic people's powers.
 
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