HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Grade
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Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Excellent!
Heroes is definitely back!
When S2 debuted, I remembered feeling that something was off, didn't quite feel like they had the old magic back. THIS had the old magic back, in spades. They haven't lost the ability to deliver maniacally entertaining fun, mebee with a little smarts thrown in just to keep us off balance (the unexpected but intriguing religious plotline with Nathan).
Looks like my guess about Future Peter being the shooter was right - credit a video someone posted of him walking away with Peter's characteristic shoulder-rolling lope, it had to be either Future Peter or a shapeshifter in his form - but I'd been hoping Angela would be Sylar's aunt (probably the sister of Sylar's yet-unseen dad) rather than his mom (too melodramatic! yeesh!
) because Ellen Greene was so perfect as his mom. Was one of my favorite scenes from S1 - the snowstorm - a lie? 
And how exactly did she hide that pregnancy? Or did she? There could have been another brother thought to have not survived childbirth midway between Nathan and Peter. That would explain the long gap between their ages. I could buy the notion that they never mentioned the brother till now because, well, why would they?
OTOH, I should know by now that nothing is too melodramatic for this show. And my Peter/Sylar slash fetish just got a whole lot more interesting. Take that, Petrellicest!!!
Sylar vs Claire was creepy as hell and clears up something I've been wondering about. So Peter could have survived that craineotomy he almost got from his long-lost brother in S1. Which raises an intriguing possibility: will Sylar realize that he doesn't have to chase any mutant besides Peter? Just follow his little brother around and open his skull periodically to extract the new powers he's obtained. Make sure to replace the scalp so he can continue his collections. They'd make quite a team.
Speaking of Peter, does the dolt realize he could just, you know, run away from his evil compatriots? Or does he have access to his host's memories and realize the guy has a record? That would be a reason not to go to the cops, but just because The Company had him locked up doesn't mean he's wanted by the law.
Speaking of dolts, Mohinder!!! Good thing you're hot because damn, how stupid do you have to be to inject yourself with a random power when you've seen several instances of the powers being catastrophic. Might as well just play Russian roulette. I guess I can chalk it up to his scientific curiosity getting the better of whatever passes for common sense with him, and I have to admit, the new Mo sure is fun. 
Glad to see Heroes has its mojo back. With this season not likely to yeild many new winners - not a very promising field this year, I guess it was the writers' strike? - I really wanted this one to be working out.
Excellent!
Heroes is definitely back!When S2 debuted, I remembered feeling that something was off, didn't quite feel like they had the old magic back. THIS had the old magic back, in spades. They haven't lost the ability to deliver maniacally entertaining fun, mebee with a little smarts thrown in just to keep us off balance (the unexpected but intriguing religious plotline with Nathan).
Looks like my guess about Future Peter being the shooter was right - credit a video someone posted of him walking away with Peter's characteristic shoulder-rolling lope, it had to be either Future Peter or a shapeshifter in his form - but I'd been hoping Angela would be Sylar's aunt (probably the sister of Sylar's yet-unseen dad) rather than his mom (too melodramatic! yeesh!
) because Ellen Greene was so perfect as his mom. Was one of my favorite scenes from S1 - the snowstorm - a lie? And how exactly did she hide that pregnancy? Or did she? There could have been another brother thought to have not survived childbirth midway between Nathan and Peter. That would explain the long gap between their ages. I could buy the notion that they never mentioned the brother till now because, well, why would they?
OTOH, I should know by now that nothing is too melodramatic for this show. And my Peter/Sylar slash fetish just got a whole lot more interesting. Take that, Petrellicest!!!
Sylar vs Claire was creepy as hell and clears up something I've been wondering about. So Peter could have survived that craineotomy he almost got from his long-lost brother in S1. Which raises an intriguing possibility: will Sylar realize that he doesn't have to chase any mutant besides Peter? Just follow his little brother around and open his skull periodically to extract the new powers he's obtained. Make sure to replace the scalp so he can continue his collections. They'd make quite a team.
Speaking of Peter, does the dolt realize he could just, you know, run away from his evil compatriots? Or does he have access to his host's memories and realize the guy has a record? That would be a reason not to go to the cops, but just because The Company had him locked up doesn't mean he's wanted by the law.
Speaking of dolts, Mohinder!!!
Good thing you're hot because damn, how stupid do you have to be to inject yourself with a random power when you've seen several instances of the powers being catastrophic. Might as well just play Russian roulette. I guess I can chalk it up to his scientific curiosity getting the better of whatever passes for common sense with him, and I have to admit, the new Mo sure is fun. Glad to see Heroes has its mojo back. With this season not likely to yeild many new winners - not a very promising field this year, I guess it was the writers' strike? - I really wanted this one to be working out.
Claire is the "pure blood" mutant savior that Hiro mentioned. Interesting that he made an effort to allow her to live - is that because he recognized her special fate? Or just lightening up now that he thinks he's invincible?
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Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Or there are some really fonky genetics going on in Heroes-land and Sylar Has Two Mommies.
Another explanation: Virginia Grey was Angela's sister, and perhaps was maneuvered into marrying baby Gabe's father as a cover for his birth. I definitely feel like Virginia and Gabe had to be related, given the similarity of looks (a bit) and behavior (a lot).
Yeah, that notion has been kicking around for a while, hasn't it? I've been joking about it since S1 too but I never thought it would ever come to pass. That just shows how good this show is at reading fans' minds and giving us what we want (whether they should is another thing.)
Or there are some really fonky genetics going on in Heroes-land and Sylar Has Two Mommies.
Another explanation: Virginia Grey was Angela's sister, and perhaps was maneuvered into marrying baby Gabe's father as a cover for his birth. I definitely feel like Virginia and Gabe had to be related, given the similarity of looks (a bit) and behavior (a lot).
I'm willing to accept that since there are infinite possible futures, similar events happen in many of them. It's fun never to know which variation of a person from the future will emerge when the last future has been obliterated (and very karmic that the futures seem to be getting worse - Angela was right, they should have let Manhattan blow up.)
Yeah, that notion has been kicking around for a while, hasn't it? I've been joking about it since S1 too but I never thought it would ever come to pass. That just shows how good this show is at reading fans' minds and giving us what we want (whether they should is another thing.)
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
The writers pretty much wrote all those powered Mohinder like they were trying to dupicate scenes from The FLY scene by scene. I'm thinking it a homage. It's not like they were passing it off as original.
Also what does Claire have to do with anything? The Level 5 criminals and the world cracking thus far have had nothing to do with her.
But Heroes isn't LOST. The show isn't about a developing a single plot over multiple seasons. Heroes is about good guys trying to beat bad guys and saving the world from something. That's not likely going to change in the future seasons because that's what the show is about. It's like 24 is about Jack Bauer fighting terrorists. That show is pretty much has the exact same plot every season but with a few differences.
The writers pretty much wrote all those powered Mohinder like they were trying to dupicate scenes from The FLY scene by scene. I'm thinking it a homage. It's not like they were passing it off as original.
Also what does Claire have to do with anything? The Level 5 criminals and the world cracking thus far have had nothing to do with her.
But Heroes isn't LOST. The show isn't about a developing a single plot over multiple seasons. Heroes is about good guys trying to beat bad guys and saving the world from something. That's not likely going to change in the future seasons because that's what the show is about. It's like 24 is about Jack Bauer fighting terrorists. That show is pretty much has the exact same plot every season but with a few differences.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I also agree with the sentiment that Heroes shouldn't get into a mere Company vs the Mutants plus Saving the Planet from Exploding (Again!) rut. Having Nathan back in political power is something I've been wanting, because it adds a new element. And they do have to drop the "everyone finds out about the mutants" shoe eventually - maybe at the end of this season - and if Nathan is some sort of popular quasi-religious figure by then, that could add an interesting twist.
On Peter shooting Nathan:
We don't really know what screwed-up stuff Future Peter experienced but you're right that their relationship has an unhealthy element that could result in Peter becoming resentful of Nathan. Plus Peter is, as we have all noticed, somewhat dense, and also pigheaded, emotional, impulsive and self-pitying. In short, he's a headcase and I could buy him becoming evil or unbalanced under various scenarios. As long as they make sure to give him the scar and the brillcremed hair to tip us off.
I agree, I want Mo to go back to being normal after he's had his little experiment which of course is going to be catastrophic and turn him into a salamander or some damn thing. Ando and Noah need to stay normal!
I also agree with the sentiment that Heroes shouldn't get into a mere Company vs the Mutants plus Saving the Planet from Exploding (Again!) rut. Having Nathan back in political power is something I've been wanting, because it adds a new element. And they do have to drop the "everyone finds out about the mutants" shoe eventually - maybe at the end of this season - and if Nathan is some sort of popular quasi-religious figure by then, that could add an interesting twist.
On Peter shooting Nathan:
We don't really know what screwed-up stuff Future Peter experienced but you're right that their relationship has an unhealthy element that could result in Peter becoming resentful of Nathan. Plus Peter is, as we have all noticed, somewhat dense, and also pigheaded, emotional, impulsive and self-pitying. In short, he's a headcase and I could buy him becoming evil or unbalanced under various scenarios. As long as they make sure to give him the scar and the brillcremed hair to tip us off.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
One thing I really hope is that they have the world find out about all the supers running around. I hope the writers focus on that for at least a season. It's just too unbelievable if the media doesn't find out. It gets frustrating like with the Stargate shows.
One thing I really hope is that they have the world find out about all the supers running around. I hope the writers focus on that for at least a season. It's just too unbelievable if the media doesn't find out. It gets frustrating like with the Stargate shows.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Yeah we need to avoid Stargate-istis, but they've already had media chasing Nathan, which seems to be a set-up for this idea to be taken further.
More on previous comments:
I'm working on the assumption that Kaito wanted Hiro to open the safe and knew that telling him not to was the best strategy. Why even tell him about the formula otherwise? Why even have the formula in the safe?
Yeah we need to avoid Stargate-istis, but they've already had media chasing Nathan, which seems to be a set-up for this idea to be taken further.
More on previous comments:
I'm working on the assumption that Kaito wanted Hiro to open the safe and knew that telling him not to was the best strategy. Why even tell him about the formula otherwise? Why even have the formula in the safe?
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
So why can Peter go back in time and screw up the timeline, but he can't go back in time to undo some specific things? Why can't he go back and save Claire from Sylar? Why can't he go back to when Sylar was powerless and kill him?
Time travel as a power was a mistake on this show. It gives the writers too much power to play with, so to speak, but at the same time they don't use it for the obvious. Sort of like how Peter NEVER read Adam's mind about his motives.
So why can Peter go back in time and screw up the timeline, but he can't go back in time to undo some specific things? Why can't he go back and save Claire from Sylar? Why can't he go back to when Sylar was powerless and kill him?
Time travel as a power was a mistake on this show. It gives the writers too much power to play with, so to speak, but at the same time they don't use it for the obvious. Sort of like how Peter NEVER read Adam's mind about his motives.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Because stopping those things might have consequences more catastrophic than just letting them happen. Just like Mama Petrelli and her prophetic dreams (presumably) that destroying Manhattan would be the better option compared with what would happen otherwise, namely the planet splitting in half.
And in S4, Peter's stupidity causes a rift in the space-time continuum, resulting in the destruction of the universe.
Because stopping those things might have consequences more catastrophic than just letting them happen. Just like Mama Petrelli and her prophetic dreams (presumably) that destroying Manhattan would be the better option compared with what would happen otherwise, namely the planet splitting in half.
And in S4, Peter's stupidity causes a rift in the space-time continuum, resulting in the destruction of the universe.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I think that scene could have been written better.
Have Kaito talk about the safe but edit out the not opening part. Hiro goes to open the safe because he wants to make sure it's safe but when he gets there he finds what's inside it has already been stolen. After looking at some tapes he finds out that the girl took it. This way makes it look like Hiro did the right thing by wanting to check on it instead of being bored and accidently giving someone the chance to steal it. Oh well.
I think that scene could have been written better.
Have Kaito talk about the safe but edit out the not opening part. Hiro goes to open the safe because he wants to make sure it's safe but when he gets there he finds what's inside it has already been stolen. After looking at some tapes he finds out that the girl took it. This way makes it look like Hiro did the right thing by wanting to check on it instead of being bored and accidently giving someone the chance to steal it. Oh well.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
And was speedster girl just hanging around in Hiro's office waiting for him to be stupid?
And was speedster girl just hanging around in Hiro's office waiting for him to be stupid?
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
We will find out in a later episode that speedster girl is related to Claude so she has invisiblity powers as well. So she lived there for weeks just so she could catch him opening the safe. The perfect thief!
And was speedster girl just hanging around in Hiro's office waiting for him to be stupid?
We will find out in a later episode that speedster girl is related to Claude so she has invisiblity powers as well. So she lived there for weeks just so she could catch him opening the safe. The perfect thief!
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
I really wish they'd explained it on the show, though. Nobody should have to read the comics for the story to make sense.
I had the same question, until someone pointed me in the direction of the online comics which I had completely forgotten about. There is a story about her which fills this apparent plot hole.And was speedster girl just hanging around in Hiro's office waiting for him to be stupid?
I really wish they'd explained it on the show, though. Nobody should have to read the comics for the story to make sense.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
That's true. OTOH, there's limited airtime and nobody wants to get bogged down in explanatory details. There are quite a few huh? moments like that, which simply never get explained. As long as they make sure to explain the important stuff, then it's fine if they want to keep this show at a fast pace.
That's true. OTOH, there's limited airtime and nobody wants to get bogged down in explanatory details. There are quite a few huh? moments like that, which simply never get explained. As long as they make sure to explain the important stuff, then it's fine if they want to keep this show at a fast pace.
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Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Future-Peter
Why did Future-Peter shoot Nathan instead of just talking to him? Because he witnessed everything that Nathan did in the future. Who he became. What he did and enacted as President. How he helped if not lead the creation of the anti-supers movement. All of that. And even if it was the same Future-Peter we originally met, who found out that Sylar had taken over Nathan's life, that Future-Peter also learned from Sylar that Sylar didn't take over until Nathan had already done all of those things.
If you could travel back in time, would you go back and kill Hitler before he came to power or would you have just tried to tell him "look, you're gonna be an uber-dick in the near future. So, like, don't. K?" That's basically the decision Future-Peter had to make.
Speedstress
How did she know when to run in and snatch the formula? How, indeed. This is a world chock-full of psychics, clairvoyants, and precogs. And it's clear that the only people of note who would even know about the formula are those who also know about and obviously work with supers. So why wouldn't she have known when to run in and snatch it? Especially if the result leads to a very significant event in the future, making that event very significant for said psychics/clairvoyants/precogs.
That said, I *really* love this character. It was a brilliant addition to the show. Hiro desperately needed someone who could thwart his time-stopping power so as to keep his character interesting and sympathetic. And if there were a genuine villian who had Hiro's power, the show would be over before it even started as Hiro is, essentially, a god. If he didn't have all of his quirky traits about wanting to be a hero, about being noble, about saving people... he'd quickly turn into an unstoppable force. Look what Future-Peter is doing with the power, and he's just too stupid and naive to know how to use it effectively. Now imagine Sylar having that power. Yeah. End of game. Which, again, is why I like this speedstress character so much. She can negate part of Hiro's godlike power while not rendering him completely useless. And that's just a brilliant way to handle it.
Future-Peter
Why did Future-Peter shoot Nathan instead of just talking to him? Because he witnessed everything that Nathan did in the future. Who he became. What he did and enacted as President. How he helped if not lead the creation of the anti-supers movement. All of that. And even if it was the same Future-Peter we originally met, who found out that Sylar had taken over Nathan's life, that Future-Peter also learned from Sylar that Sylar didn't take over until Nathan had already done all of those things.
If you could travel back in time, would you go back and kill Hitler before he came to power or would you have just tried to tell him "look, you're gonna be an uber-dick in the near future. So, like, don't. K?" That's basically the decision Future-Peter had to make.
Speedstress
How did she know when to run in and snatch the formula? How, indeed. This is a world chock-full of psychics, clairvoyants, and precogs. And it's clear that the only people of note who would even know about the formula are those who also know about and obviously work with supers. So why wouldn't she have known when to run in and snatch it? Especially if the result leads to a very significant event in the future, making that event very significant for said psychics/clairvoyants/precogs.
That said, I *really* love this character. It was a brilliant addition to the show. Hiro desperately needed someone who could thwart his time-stopping power so as to keep his character interesting and sympathetic. And if there were a genuine villian who had Hiro's power, the show would be over before it even started as Hiro is, essentially, a god. If he didn't have all of his quirky traits about wanting to be a hero, about being noble, about saving people... he'd quickly turn into an unstoppable force. Look what Future-Peter is doing with the power, and he's just too stupid and naive to know how to use it effectively. Now imagine Sylar having that power. Yeah. End of game. Which, again, is why I like this speedstress character so much. She can negate part of Hiro's godlike power while not rendering him completely useless. And that's just a brilliant way to handle it.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Sylar's goals are much more specific and easy to achieve with time travel. He'd bop around, collecting powers from a past timeline and not caring how it alters the timeline - maybe that would create even more opportunities for him?
But Peter wants to "save the world" which is virtually impossible since Fate seems determined to destroy the world and punish anyone who tries to thwart its intentions.
Maybe another parallelism between that future and the one obliterated in S1 was that Nathan was actually Sylar in disguise again and therefore acting more evil than he otherwise would have. Tho I do like the idea of Nathan being somewhat evil even if he's himself.
Sylar's goals are much more specific and easy to achieve with time travel. He'd bop around, collecting powers from a past timeline and not caring how it alters the timeline - maybe that would create even more opportunities for him?
But Peter wants to "save the world" which is virtually impossible since Fate seems determined to destroy the world and punish anyone who tries to thwart its intentions.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Your right and repetitive sameness isn't something I'm fond of. I don't watch 24 or the procedual CSI shows and its part of what hurt Trek near the end. I feel it in HEROES already and am likely to be a non-viewer just as quickly as I got caught up on it.
Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr
Mohinder doing his Spidey imitation would be a great avatar entry for this week's contest. Anyone know where I can grab the pic?
Mohinder doing his Spidey imitation would be a great avatar entry for this week's contest. Anyone know where I can grab the pic?
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