Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

[Liet]

JanewayRulz!: First time I've seen that Tarantino clip. I think he really nails it there. Xena really was telling a great story, one that doesn't get told often enough. There are things for which you can never be redeemed, but that's not an excuse for not trying your best to do good going forward. The production values and stylizing of the show may have been cheesy, but the story and characters were fully realized.

 

[kirk55555]

Under the Broken Sky (Hercules) - This was an ok episode. Hercules goes to visit Salmoneus, only to find him running a "pleasure palace". Hercules ends up beating up some theives, and reuniting a husband and wife. The episode wasn't spectacular or anything, but it was decent and Salmoneus is always good.

 

[Kelthaz]

Season 2 is probably Hercules' weakest season. Most episodes range from terrible to mediocre, but there's a few good episodes that you should enjoy. Fortunately, Season 3 is a huge improvement.

"The King of Thieves", "The Other Side", "The Enforcer", "The Apple" and "Once a Hero" are probably the best episodes from this season.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, so far Hercules season 2 is kicking Xena Season 1's butt. I've liked most of the episodes, and unlike xena it hasn't had one completely horrible episode yet. To be fair, Hercules is helped immensely by not having the most useless character I've seen in a while attached to his hip like Xena has. Like I've said, its still early so Gabrielle isn't even close to making me stop watching Xena, but she's by far the biggest problem in the episodes I've seen. Hercules benefits from mostly teaming up with people like Ioalus and Salmoneus. His only really bad sidekick was in the TV movie were Renee O'Connor was basically playing Gabrielle under a different name

I honestly don't think its the actress's fault, but Xena will never beat Hercules as a show until Gabrielle becomes bearable and gets some reason to exist. Until then, it still has some good episodes, but they're good in spite of Gabrielle being in them. So, the advantage is with Hercules.

 

[Forbin]

Don't worry. Gabby grows.

 

[Kelthaz]

I liked Gabrielle in season 1. Innocent farmer's girl tags along with battle-hardened warrior. They made a good duo.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

By the end of season 4 Gabrielle really steps it up a notch in the warrior department. In season 5 she becomes totally kick ass!

 

[kirk55555]

The Reckoning (Xena) - This episode was horrible. I couldn't make it all the way through .It had absolutely no redeeming factors. The story (Ares frames Xena for murder because he's bored, I guess) was horrible, the execution sucked. I didn't even get half way through, I was so pissed off I had to just stop. There hasn't been a bigger waste of time in xena or Hercules than this episode. We do see Ares in a human form, but I didn't actually watch any of his scenes, just skimmed to see that it was him, so I don't know if he was any good. If that actor plays him again in an episode that doesn't make me want to throw all my Xena DVD's in the garbage, I'll judge his performance then. The Xena wiki entry for this episode says that it confirms that Xena has super strength, but I think that's idiotic, so I'm ignoring it if its true. Overall, this is a complete disaster of an episode.

The Titans (Xena) - I was worried about this once it became clear that it was a gabrielle episode, but it was ok. The Titans were decent, but kind of bland (they're basically just giants with a fancy name). Gabrielle wasn't super annoying, and the overall story was ok. After the last episode, this was a solid way to give me a little faith back in the show.

Prometheus - Prometheus (looking nothing like he did in the Hercules in the Circle of Fire tv movie) gets captured by hera, and Xena has to team up with Hercules and Iolaus to save him. This was a very entertaining episode, and even Gabrielle managed to go through most of it without annoying me.

 

[Timewalker]

The Reckoning (Xena) - This episode was horrible. I couldn't make it all the way through .It had absolutely no redeeming factors. The story (Ares frames Xena for murder because he's bored, I guess) was horrible, the execution sucked. I didn't even get half way through, I was so pissed off I had to just stop. There hasn't been a bigger waste of time in xena or Hercules than this episode. We do see Ares in a human form, but I didn't actually watch any of his scenes, just skimmed to see that it was him, so I don't know if he was any good. If that actor plays him again in an episode that doesn't make me want to throw all my Xena DVD's in the garbage, I'll judge his performance then. The Xena wiki entry for this episode says that it confirms that Xena has super strength, but I think that's idiotic, so I'm ignoring it if its true. Overall, this is a complete disaster of an episode.

The Titans (Xena) - I was worried about this once it became clear that it was a gabrielle episode, but it was ok. The Titans were decent, but kind of bland (they're basically just giants with a fancy name). Gabrielle wasn't super annoying, and the overall story was ok. After the last episode, this was a solid way to give me a little faith back in the show.

Prometheus - Prometheus (looking nothing like he did in the Hercules in the Circle of Fire tv movie) gets captured by hera, and Xena has to team up with Hercules and Iolaus to save him. This was a very entertaining episode, and even Gabrielle managed to go through most of it without annoying me.

Ares is very nice to look at.

It's such a shame the actor died young.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

JanewayRulz!: First time I've seen that Tarantino clip. I think he really nails it there. Xena really was telling a great story, one that doesn't get told often enough. There are things for which you can never be redeemed, but that's not an excuse for not trying your best to do good going forward. The production values and stylizing of the show may have been cheesy, but the story and characters were fully realized.

I think that Tarentino clip is the one that I used / repeated the most in my Xena thread, since it really discussed the fact that this EVIL woman was on this sisyphean journey of redemption. (An appropriate allusion, since Sisyphus was from Corinth.)

That's one of the reasons I really fell for this show, the fact that the characters are allowed to change/grow. Specifically I'm talking about Gabrielle, but even Xena makes progress on her journey of redemption.

Ares is very nice to look at.

It's such a shame the actor died young.

Good heavens, isn't that the truth.

RIP Kevin.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Yeah, RIP Kevin Smith. Ares was such a love/hate character. Half the time you didn't know which side he was on. I loved "Old Ares Had A Farm". A great comedic episode

 

[kirk55555]

Death in Chains (Xena) - This was pretty good. A king who made some kind of deal to save his people, but angered Zeus in the process so he had to die. Instead he captures the personification of death who happens to be Hades sister. Well, according to what I could find she actually has no relation to any actual character in greek mythology, but for the purposes of the show she's basically the grim reaper. After she's captured, people can no longer die, so its up to Xena to rescue her to put the world back to normal. Gabrielle's stuff this episode was lame, as always, but besides that it was entertaining.

Hooves and Harlots - Xena has to stop a war between the Amazons and a group of centaurs. We learn that Xena isn't a huge fan of centaurs (I wonder if they did this to make sure she wasn't similar to Lyla, or if its just a coincidence) and that she once fought a battle against the leader of the group. The stuff between the groups was good, but Gabrielle was definitely annoying this episode, and all of her stuff involving her becoming an "amazon princess" was pretty bad. Overall, this was an ok episode, although the Gabrielle stuff drags it down.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I really like Hooves and Harlots. The first appearance of the Amazons and Gabby gets the fighting staff! My other favourites from season 1 are Callisto and The Greater Good. Hudson Leick was so awesome in that role

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Gabrielle is basically a 17 year old sheltered farm girl who is slowly coming of age in season 1, which I found more believable than having her start to swing a sword and fight like a swirling dervish by episode 7.

Death in Chains is a good example at how far Gabrielle's already come in this process, since Xena trusts her enough to leave her (and the young man) to care for the wounded while she rides off to help Death escape her captor. I don't remember the part about the King angering Zeus so he had to die. I thought it was just his vanity that he didn't EVER want to die, so he captured Celesta.

Like J'sG, I really like H&H... and the fact that even though they finally give Gabrielle a fighting staff, she ISN'T the most graceful person who ever wielded it. Yet!

 

[kirk55555]

Gabrielle doesn't need to fight. Salmoneus doesn't fight, and he's entertaining. She just needs to stop being a moron, and grow a personality that doesn't grate on my nerves. She's way too cocky, and doesn't deserve any of it. She is there to get Xena into trouble, and presumably to give viewers someone to hate more than the villain of the episode She isn't always annoying to the point that I want to see the villain get her, but when she is, Gabrielle is easily the most annoying thing in the Hercules/Xena universe so far.

Comparing it to Hercules's sidekicks, she isn't as interesting or as good a fighter as Iolaus, and she isn't entertaining like Salmoneus. If they want a comedy relief sidekick who "fights" with wit for Xena, that's fine, but she needs to be at least a little likeable, as opposed to being annoying and generally clueless.

As for Death in chains, Celesta specifically says that his death was a result of angering/offending Zeus. When it comes to Gabrielle, she was put in charge of the wounded probably because Xena knew she couldn't do anything to the dying worse than they were already suffering .

Also, Hooves and Harlots was not the first appearance of the Amazons in the hercules/Xena universe. That was Hercules and the Amazon Women, the first Hercules tV movie, and the Amazon group there were more interesting than the ones in the Xena episode. I mean, the Xena ones were ok, but a bit more goofy than the Hercules ones, although they are similar enough to probably be connected in some way (probably different groups in different areas).

I like Xena as a character, and when the show is about her its usually good. I have three seasons of Xena on DVD, so I'm sure I got a lot of gabrielle to go. I intend to watch all of it, I just hope that, at some point, Gabrielle stops being a detriment and starts actually benefiting the show. It hasn't happened yet, but I'd like to be able to say "You know, gabrielle really helped this episode" someday.

 

[OmahaStar]

I like Xena as a character, and when the show is about her its usually good. I have three seasons of Xena on DVD, so I'm sure I got a lot of gabrielle to go. I intend to watch all of it, I just hope that, at some point, Gabrielle stops being a detriment and starts actually benefiting the show. It hasn't happened yet, but I'd like to be able to say "You know, gabrielle really helped this episode" someday.

Seeing where you are now, and what's coming up soon, I'm going to leave the above quote there. When you see how far the character grows, and what she is really capable of, you'll appreciate that quote a little more.

If it helps, there is at least one alternate timeline you will see in which Xena has enough of Gabby and just kills her on the spot. Fate is a wheel, it will reveal all you've become, all that you feel.

 

[Forbin]

Gabrielle is basically a 17 year old sheltered farm girl who is slowly coming of age in season 1, which I found more believable than having her start to swing a sword and fight like a swirling dervish by episode 7.

Death in Chains is a good example at how far Gabrielle's already come in this process, since Xena trusts her enough to leave her (and the young man) to care for the wounded while she rides off to help Death escape her captor. I don't remember the part about the King angering Zeus so he had to die. I thought it was just his vanity that he didn't EVER want to die, so he captured Celesta.

Like J'sG, I really like H&H... and the fact that even though they finally give Gabrielle a fighting staff, she ISN'T the most graceful person who ever wielded it. Yet!

Ah, but when she meets Joxer for the first time, she certainly wields it well!

 

[Timewalker]

Gabrielle doesn't need to fight. Salmoneus doesn't fight, and he's entertaining. She just needs to stop being a moron, and grow a personality that doesn't grate on my nerves. She's way too cocky, and doesn't deserve any of it. She is there to get Xena into trouble, and presumably to give viewers someone to hate more than the villain of the episode She isn't always annoying to the point that I want to see the villain get her, but when she is, Gabrielle is easily the most annoying thing in the Hercules/Xena universe so far.

Comparing it to Hercules's sidekicks, she isn't as interesting or as good a fighter as Iolaus, and she isn't entertaining like Salmoneus. If they want a comedy relief sidekick who "fights" with wit for Xena, that's fine, but she needs to be at least a little likeable, as opposed to being annoying and generally clueless.

As for Death in chains, Celesta specifically says that his death was a result of angering/offending Zeus. When it comes to Gabrielle, she was put in charge of the wounded probably because Xena knew she couldn't do anything to the dying worse than they were already suffering .

Also, Hooves and Harlots was not the first appearance of the Amazons in the hercules/Xena universe. That was Hercules and the Amazon Women, the first Hercules tV movie, and the Amazon group there were more interesting than the ones in the Xena episode. I mean, the Xena ones were ok, but a bit more goofy than the Hercules ones, although they are similar enough to probably be connected in some way (probably different groups in different areas).

I like Xena as a character, and when the show is about her its usually good. I have three seasons of Xena on DVD, so I'm sure I got a lot of gabrielle to go. I intend to watch all of it, I just hope that, at some point, Gabrielle stops being a detriment and starts actually benefiting the show. It hasn't happened yet, but I'd like to be able to say "You know, gabrielle really helped this episode" someday.

We've been telling you she gets better - grows up, learns to be a credible fighter in her own right, and goes through stuff that's every bit as intense as some of Xena's experiences... Just be patient.


Personally, I found Eve to be the most annoying character in Xena.

 

[kirk55555]

I think I'm being fairly patient. I'm still watching the episodes, and finding at least some stuff in the bad episodes enjoyable (well, except The Reckoning). I'm not even close to giving up on the show. I just needed to vent about Gabrielle I guess. I just do not understand why they went this route with her. A character can have growth without needing to start as someone you hate. She can be inexperienced without being annoying, they just didn't go that route, and the show is really suffering from it sometimes. I definitely don't like Gabrielle, but I'm willing to have my mind changed. I'm just not super thrilled that I have to wait until some nebulous point in the future of the show for that to happen

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Gabrielle doesn't need to fight. Salmoneus doesn't fight, and he's entertaining. She just needs to stop being a moron, and grow a personality that doesn't grate on my nerves. She's way too cocky, and doesn't deserve any of it. She is there to get Xena into trouble, and presumably to give viewers someone to hate more than the villain of the episode She isn't always annoying to the point that I want to see the villain get her, but when she is, Gabrielle is easily the most annoying thing in the Hercules/Xena universe so far.

Comparing it to Hercules's sidekicks, she isn't as interesting or as good a fighter as Iolaus, and she isn't entertaining like Salmoneus. If they want a comedy relief sidekick who "fights" with wit for Xena, that's fine, but she needs to be at least a little likeable, as opposed to being annoying and generally clueless.

As for Death in chains, Celesta specifically says that his death was a result of angering/offending Zeus. When it comes to Gabrielle, she was put in charge of the wounded probably because Xena knew she couldn't do anything to the dying worse than they were already suffering .

Also, Hooves and Harlots was not the first appearance of the Amazons in the hercules/Xena universe. That was Hercules and the Amazon Women, the first Hercules tV movie, and the Amazon group there were more interesting than the ones in the Xena episode. I mean, the Xena ones were ok, but a bit more goofy than the Hercules ones, although they are similar enough to probably be connected in some way (probably different groups in different areas).

I like Xena as a character, and when the show is about her its usually good. I have three seasons of Xena on DVD, so I'm sure I got a lot of gabrielle to go. I intend to watch all of it, I just hope that, at some point, Gabrielle stops being a detriment and starts actually benefiting the show. It hasn't happened yet, but I'd like to be able to say "You know, gabrielle really helped this episode" someday.

I meant that it was the first Amazon episode in Xena.