Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

[Timewalker]

Xena's attempt to kill Gabrielle came from a place where Xena felt Gabrielle had betrayed her and was therefore ultimately responsible for Solon's death. Gabrielle had refused to destroy Hope, and Hope grew up to kill Solon. In Xena's mind, this makes it All Gabrielle's Fault and therefore Gabrielle must pay.

It's about mother-love, betrayal, revenge, and forgiveness.

I get that, but it still wasn't Xena. She was reformed enough to not revert back to murder, even if someone betrayed her. Or, at least, she should have been. It felt really out of character at this point in the series. The writers really needed to decide if they even want Xena to be a hero, because they can't keep reverting her to evil whenever they want to spice up an episode, its basically character assassination.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you do get it. This wasn't about whether or not Xena is good or evil or heroic. It's about the fact that it was her child who was killed. This Hope and Solon stuff is all about the fact that Gabrielle and Xena were mothers and would do anything - anything - to protect, and even avenge their children, even if it means they're not in their right minds about it. As I said - betrayal, revenge, and forgiveness.

If you don't get that, ask your own mother to explain it to you.

 

[kirk55555]

I get what the writers were going for, but there is no rule that says a child's death means someone who is partially responsible will always be murdered by the dead kid's mom. Gabrielle unintentionally created a situation where Solon died. The reformed Xena wouldn't kill her best friend over that. I don't care about some BS about maternal revenge, it was out of character. If Gabrielle had killed him herself, maybe, but she didn't. It was way too extreme, even if they could try to justify it. Also, when she ends up forgiving Gabrielle because they sang some bad songs, it makes the idea that she was acting in character laughable. It was extremely poor writing and an overreaction.

 

[Kelthaz]

I get what the writers were going for, but there is no rule that says a child's death means someone who is partially responsible will always be murdered by the dead kid's mom. Gabrielle unintentionally created a situation where Solon died.

Gabrielle's betrayal (lying to Xena about having killed Hope) led to the death of Xena's only son. The person Xena trusted most in this world betrayed her and caused the death of her son. No, Xena's reaction was not extreme in the slightest.

 

[kirk55555]

So, trying to murder someone she's known for years, and considers family, makes complete sense if the person in question accidentally kills someone she's seen twice since he was probably a month old, if that? I'm not saying she needed to forgive Gabrielle. I expected it to end like what we saw in Maternal Instincts ending, with xena and gabrielle splitting up. I assumed they'd go their seperate ways, but then a situation would come up to get them back together. Xena didn't seem particularly inclined to kill Gabrielle at the end of Maternal Instincts. I get why they did it, a parent getting revenge for a murdered kid is pretty standard. I just don't think it made sense in this context, with these characters. I'm not going to get into an argument, though. I didn't like the attempted murder, and because of the stupid singing I skipped the episode anyway. As far as I'm concerned, it was stupid but its already been resolved, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Forbin]

I'm gonna have to agree with Kirk on that point - Xena loves Gabrielle, period. Her initial reaction of turning away from her and walking off makes more sense in character than tying her to a horse and dragging her over rocks. Even angry Xena should be capable of enough rationality to stop, think it over, and realize how wrong it would be.

 

[kirk55555]

Forgiven (Xena) - This episode wasn't very good. Tara was beyond annoying, and her character arc was extremely predictable. The only good parts of this episode was the charades scene, and when Gabrielle beat Tara up. Besides that, Tara made this episode way too annoying.

 

[kirk55555]

The Wedding of Alcmene (Hercules) - Hercules finds out that hius mother is marrying Jason, his hero and leader of the argonauts. Hera and her forces decide to use this event to try to kill Hercules, while a evil servant tries to usurp Jason's throne before he can name a successor. This was an entertaining episode, and had a bunch of cameos of characters from older Hercules episodes (and the main shown villain was from one of the Hercules TV movies). Jason and Hercules had a great adventure through the belly of a sea monster, which they escaped by having Hercules rip part of its spine apart

In the end, the day is saved and Hercules's half brother (Alcmene's other son) Iphicles becomes king (Iphicles is played by Kevin Smith, who clean shaven I couldn't even tell he's also Ares, I didn't even realize it was the same actor until checking the hercxena wiki). Overall, this was a solidly fun adventure with a bunch of connections to old Hercules episodes.

 

[kirk55555]

The Power (Hercules) - Hercules meets a guy named Deon, who has the power to make people do what he says (because his mom is Aphrodite, although he never meets her). His uncle (on his human father's side) tries to use his powers for evil, but Hercules manages to stop him from joining his evil uncle. This was a decent episode, although I kind of wish Aphrodite had appeared (although this was so soon after her first appearance I guess it makes sense they didn't use her, since she wasn't really a recurring character yet). There was a funny subplot of Salmoneus being hired to sell manure that got a few laughs. Overall this was ok, although Deon was a bit annoying at times.

 

[kirk55555]

King Con (Xena) - This was an ok episode, but not great. Having to con the casino owner was interesting, but the con men were kind of annoying, especially the one trying to "romance" Xena. I don't have much more to say. This was an extremely average episode.

 

[kirk55555]

When in Rome (Xena) - This was a pretty "meh" episode. Xena once again gives in to her over the top obsession with Caesar, and it goes about as well as it always does for her. She annoys him but doesn't really do anything permanent to his rule, which kind of makes the whole episode pointless on top of being annoying. There were a few ok parts (Karl Urban does a great job as Caesar, even if Xena's fixation and general stupidity about him tends to make his appearance aggravating), but overall all this episode did was spend 45 minutes reminding us that Xena hates Caesar.

To be fair, she was slightly less obsessive this episode, but she still did stupid things she probably wouldn't have done (like try to kill him and step into an obvious trap) and Caesar really brings out the stupid in Xena. I think Callisto got less hate than Caesar, and she did more to Xena than Caesar could have. I mean, I'm pretty sure he betrayed her and I think he broke her legs or something (I don't know the specifics, but it really doesn't matter). Boo hoo. Xena dd worse than that on an average tuesday when she was a warlord, but when Caesar does it to her she becomes obsessed with vengeance for life.

Maybe they should just solve this the way they apparently solve all intense, personal feuds on Xena. Transport them to a middle school play's set, and sing about it for awhile. If it worked for unintentional child killing, its got to work for whatever reason Xena's obsessed with Caesar Overall, this wasn't very good. Xena/Caesar should be a lot less irritating then it is. If Xena would tone down her obsession, their interactions would be interesting. As it is, its just annoying to see Xena act like an idiot whenever Caesar is involved.

 

[kirk55555]

Centaur Mentor Journey (Hercules) - Hercules former mentor, a centaur named Ceridian, is dying and he wants Hercules to stop another of his students (Cassius) from gathering together Centaurs to fight the nearby villagers, who are fairly intolerant of Centaurs. This was a pretty average episode. We've seen the "a-hole villagers are prejudiced against centaurs" story before, and done better. It was interesting to see who taught Hercules a lot as a kid, but overall this episode doesn't leave too much of an impression. Salmoneus had a few good moments, though.

 

[kirk55555]

The Cave of Echos (Hercules) - The last episode of season 2 happens to be a clip show. The framing story for the clips was ok, Hercules and Iolaus (along with a writer named Parenthesis) have to save a woman from a cave where load noises cause bad things to happen. It was a decent enough framing device, with Hercules and Iolaus telling stories to Parenthesis while walking. Besides that, there isn't much to say about a clip show episode.

So, that's the end of Season 2 of Hercules - The Legendary Journeys. Overall, it was pretty good. It doesn't hit the greatness of Xena's great episodes often, but it doesn't hit the lowsof xena's bad episodes, either. Its taken me a while to get through it, but only because I've been watching more Xena, not because of any issues with Hercules. My favorite episodes for this season were probably The King of Theives, for introducing the amazing Autolycus, The Other Side (Hercules reuniting with his family in the underworldwas very emotional and done very well), Let the Games Begin (which is just generally very good)and Cast a Giant Shadow (for decent character stuff and an interesting resolution to the echidna stuff).

My least favorite episodes were probably Protean Challenge (for being pretty boring) and Centaur Mentor Journey (which wasn't really "bad", but was about as standard and generic a story they could have done). There was also The Apple, which I think is the only episode this season I skipped (because Iolaus judging three goddess's beauty, while Aphrodite is at her valley/surfer girl worst, would probably make me remove my eyes and ears with my bare hands ). Season 3 is next, and I'm sure it will be as good, if not better, as Season 2.

 

[kirk55555]

Forget Me Not (Xena) - Gabrielle wants to erase memories because they cause pain. She learns that you need to have bad memories to be who you are. This has been done about a million times in fiction (a million probably being a conservative estimate)so I just read summary of the episode instead of watching it. The bad memory of this episode wouldn't have been worth the time. Skipped

Fins, Femmes, and Gems (Xena) - This was a pretty good episode. Aphrodite tries to stop Xena from saving a gem that is needed to keep the north star lit by making Xena, Gabrielle and Joxer obsessed with something. Xena becomes obsessed with fishing, gabrielle becomes obsessed with herself, and Joxer basically becomes obsessed with being Tarzan. This all leads to some good jokes, like Joxer swinging around with Gabrielle and Gabrielle making up a song about herself sung to what I think is the tune of the Beverly Hillbillies theme song. Overall, this was an enjoyable episode.

 

[kirk55555]

Tsunami (Xena) - Xena and gabrielle (along with Autolycus and a few guest characters) do a Xena version of The Posieden Adventure. This was a pretty standard adventure, that probably could have spent a bit less time focused on the guest characters personal problems, but was ok overall. Bruce campbell is always good, although he wasn't given much to do this episode.

 

[kirk55555]

Vanishing Act (Xena) - I have mixed feelings about this episode. Autolycus's stuff was great, I especially liked learning his backstory. But, the parts with Xena and Gabrielle in disguise were cringe worthy, and just not very good. Overall, this was just ok.

 

[Forbin]

Fins, Femmes, and Gems (Xena) - This was a pretty good episode. Aphrodite tries to stop Xena from saving a gem that is needed to keep the north star lit by making Xena, Gabrielle and Joxer obsessed with something. Xena becomes obsessed with fishing, gabrielle becomes obsessed with herself, and Joxer basically becomes obsessed with being Tarzan. This all leads to some good jokes, like Joxer swinging around with Gabrielle and Gabrielle making up a song about herself sung to what I think is the tune of the Beverly Hillbillies theme song. Overall, this was an enjoyable episode.

Favorite line for me was Joxer ("Addis" was his jungle-man name?) swinging into a tree trunk with his legs open and slamming his nads, and immediately saying "Addis glad that over!" before sliding down, cartoon-like, out of frame.

 

[kirk55555]

Sacrafice Parts 1 & 2 (Xena) - Screw these episodes. From beginning to end, I hated every second of this story. Hope was horrible (and also hilariously lazily cast), and the story is just atrocious. I've hated the "evil god" story since it was first introduced, and it was just as bad in this story. The characters were also really bad, even Xena and Gabrielle were fairly unlikeable. The only character I didn't hate in this story is Joxer, and even he was screwed with when Xena decided to be an a-hole and go off on him. You know, he may be an idiot at times, and clumsy, but he has a heart of gold, which is more than could be said about Xena or Gabrielle.

The ending was so stupid. Yeah, i'm sure Gabrielle is totally dead and gone forever. I mean, she's in pictures on the covers of my Xena Season 4 and 5 seasons, but those must be mistakes I'm completely done with these BS "deaths". I hate stuff like this, its extremely pointless. At least comic book stupid deaths usually take months or a year or two to get reversed, while I know Gabrielle will almost certainly be back before episode 4-5 of Season 4, if not sooner. Callisto should have been interesting in this story, but she's basically pointless, and overshadowed by Hope, the worst villain in the whole Hercules/Xena franchise so far.

So, I'm done with season three. It had some amazing episodes (like A Day in the Life, Been There, Done That,and Warrior...Preistess...Tramp) and some horrible ones (Sacrifice, The Bitter Suite [which gets mentioned even though I mostly skipped it because of how it prevents any real resolution of "The Rift"], Gabrielle's Hope, and Forgiven). The "Rift" plot mostly sucked, and I think I've made it clear that I despise Hope. Season 4 can only go up from where Season 3 leaves off.

Also, just to get it out of the way

Adventures in the Sin Trade Parts 1 & 2 (Xena) - Skipped, obviously. I haven't watched a "Xena's past flashback" episode yet, and I'm not starting here.

 

[Forbin]

Dear God, Adventures in the Sin trade is my favorite 2-parter.
It's not JUST about Xena's past.
It's about things like loss, sacrifice, and being willing going to Hell to rescue a friend.

Plus, IMHO, the images of Amazon purgatory are just freakin brilliant.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, it still involves her past. I read the summary, and all the stupid Amazon Land of the dead stuff would be intolerable anyway, even if most of the story wasn't also a flashback. It story has no elements that make me even slightly interested in watching it.

Also, since I just found out about it, I should mention that I'm also skipping A Family Affair. I wasn't aware Hope appeared in the episode, or I would have listed it as skipped before. I'm pretty sure this is the last real Hope episode, but after Sacrifice I'm not watching any episode with Dahak or Hope ever again (which at this point is just the three episodes of Hercules that apparently involve Dahak).

 

[Timewalker]

Dear God, Adventures in the Sin trade is my favorite 2-parter.
It's not JUST about Xena's past.
It's about things like loss, sacrifice, and being willing going to Hell to rescue a friend.

Plus, IMHO, the images of Amazon purgatory are just freakin brilliant.

They were indeed.

Kirk55555, you have been depriving yourself of some really good episodes.