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Head Canon

Cromwell

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
So, in a universe such as ours (Trek), it's actually fairly easy to maintain a, basically, functional and appealing personal view of each series' canonical relevance.

To elaborate, a die-hard fan of "The Original Series" might say: "Only the Original Series, the films (one through six) and the Animated Series are canonical." He might, then, wonder what really became of the Federation in the twentieth-fourth century.

Someone loves the Berman-Era might say: "Only the Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and the films (seven trough ten) are canonical. The Original Series is a view of what might have come before."

Of course, I'd not really expect anyone to take either of those positions. I'm inclined to believe we all have a very particular view, which cuts across the whole franchise and picks and chooses what to take and what not to.

So, what's yours?

I, for example, am inclined to excise "The Final Frontier", "Generations", "Insurrection" and "Nemesis" in their totality and, then, go through the various series with a fine comb and brush away a few episodes here and there, a few scenes, or, even, just a few lines of dialogue.

I'm also inclined to bring "The Romulan Way" into the fold, where for others the entire bulk of the literature might be or, otherwise, might be totally disregarded.

Are there any particular films or episodes you'll skip on repeat viewing , as if they never took place or were only partially canonical? Are their any particular lines you pretend not to hear? Perhaps that one about Bolian toiletry needs in "Bride of Chaotica"?
 
There is no head canon. It's not the fans' place to choose what is canon and what is not. That goes against the very MEANING of canon. That word only applies to what the official material is - meaning, whatever is onscreen. Whatever the people making it, says it is.

And for the 10,000,000th time: The word we're looking for here is CONTINUITY. It is not CANON. Those words are NOT the same. Fans can pick and choose what they will accept in their own personal CONTINUITY. They cannot do the same thing with CANON.
 
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There is no head canon. It's not the fans' place to choose what is canon and what is not. That goes against the very MEANING of canon. That word only applies to what the official material is - meaning, whatever is onscreen. Whatever the people making it, says it is.

This is untrue. The idea of competing canonical authorities is a big part of the definition. Whose authority it is to determine canon, whether people accept that authority, also changes.

And for the 10,000,000th time: The word we're looking for here is CONTINUITY. It is not CANON. Those words are NOT the same. Fans can pick and choose what they will accept in their own personal CONTINUITY. They cannot do the same thing with CANON.

Again, you're taking an unnecessarily strict approach to the subject. Here's what the official website has to say about it:

"Ultimately, the fans, the writers and the producers may all differ on what is considered canon and the very idea of what is canon has become more fluid."
 
There is the official stance on things, from the studio, and about a thousand different interpretations from fans ranging from the mediocre to the bizarre.
 
There is no head canon. It's not the fans' place to choose what is canon and what is not. That goes against the very MEANING of canon. That word only applies to what the official material is - meaning, whatever is onscreen. Whatever the people making it, says it is.

This is untrue. The idea of competing canonical authorities is a big part of the definition. Whose authority it is to determine canon, whether people accept that authority, also changes.

Good luck bringing that argument up to Paramount and the execs. It's not like they've outlined what is and isn't canon for the past 40 years (or rather, they have, and continue to do so).

This is one of the reasons why show pitches, from the planning stages of the previous spinoffs, to whatever pitches are being brought to their table right now, goes through such a lengthy process -- Paramount cares about a uniform brand that makes them money and what best fits that vision, hence canon. It's also their trademark. So yes, they have -- and have exercised -- that authority.
 
Personally I have come to think lately that that what is "canon" is really not important from the point of view of a causal viewer. Of course Star Trek contradicts itself on multiple occasions, but that comes with being a shared universe that spans decades, multiple shows, movies, novels, games and other publications. Does the existence of Spock's Brain, TFF and Code of Honour really hurt or diminish the awesomesauce that is Day of the Dove, TUC or Best of Both Worlds? If I don't like a part of Star Trek I just don't watch it as opposed to declaring it "non-canon"
I think stuff like that only really becomes important when someone wants to contribute to the Star Trek universe be that as a writer of an episode, a author in the novel verse or a fan-fiction writer, then the person has to pick and choose what they want to be true for their interpretation of the ST universe. Otherwise...meh....

Personally to me TNG ended with "All Good Things" but that's because I simply don't watch the movies.
An argument could even be made that each version of Star Trek exists in a continuity/parallel universe all of its own. That's actually fun to think about...did the 23rd century of TNG trek look/behave less 60s? Did the 24th century of TOS Trek look more in line with it, with Klingons still looking like space Cossacks?

As to how the people in charge treat canon/continuity...even before the reboots they have shown that they won't let that stand in the way of a story they want to tell.
 
Personally I have come to think lately that that what is "canon" is really not important from the point of view of a causal viewer. Of course Star Trek contradicts itself on multiple occasions, but that comes with being a shared universe that spans decades, multiple shows, movies, novels, games and other publications. Does the existence of Spock's Brain, TFF and Code of Honour really hurt or diminish the awesomesauce that is Day of the Dove, TUC or Best of Both Worlds? If I don't like a part of Star Trek I just don't watch it as opposed to declaring it "non-canon"
I think stuff like that only really becomes important when someone wants to contribute to the Star Trek universe be that as a writer of an episode, a author in the novel verse or a fan-fiction writer, then the person has to pick and choose what they want to be true for their interpretation of the ST universe. Otherwise...meh....

Personally to me TNG ended with "All Good Things" but that's because I simply don't watch the movies.
An argument could even be made that each version of Star Trek exists in a continuity/parallel universe all of its own. That's actually fun to think about...did the 23rd century of TNG trek look/behave less 60s? Did the 24th century of TOS Trek look more in line with it, with Klingons still looking like space Cossacks?

To Mr. Laser Beam's point, however, you're more describing continuity rather than canon. Canon is the genuine product and official library that's created on screen by Paramount. Disregarding certain parts of it (like the movies) is, however, a continuity decision, which is separate from dealing with canon.

As it is, if Paramount says Season 3, Episode 15 of ENT is canon because they spent time, money, resources, stage equipment, et all in that investment with their stamp on it, then it is indeed canon. If you choose to ignore that episode in the Season 3 arc, that's not disputing canon (since you're not disputing that it was officially made by Paramount), just your preference of continuity, which is also fine.
 


So this is how it went.

New-ish Thread, and I smile, as "canon" is one of the many new words, along with other concepts and posting skills I have learned here.

Read OP intro and smile again, knowing gentle corrections are coming OP's way for use of the word "canon."

Scroll down and take in totality of Spectre-Post

Piss pants laughing and start laughcoughing...

Still laughing... :guffaw: :lol: :guffaw: :lol:
 
Good luck bringing that argument up to Paramount. It's not like they've outlined what is and isn't canon for the past 40 years (or rather, they have, and continue to do so).

I don't have to.

I can do everything I've stated in the OP and they can't stop me. It's a really weird argument to bring up.

I'm asking if anyone else does likewise, not whether Paramount does or not. Issues of a work's canonical nature are, almost by definition, going to be open to interpretation.

Some people are inclined to believe that only that which a singular author creates, himself, is canon (even against his own protestations).

Others are inclined to believe that the fans, themselves, are better able to interpret the nature of canon than a publisher (especially, if the original creator has died).

Another problem arises when an authority, such as Paramount, offers a self-contradictory account of what is considered canon. Is the fan barred from making up his own mind?

Head canon, usually spelled without separating the words, is a term used to describe the particular beliefs of an individual fan as to what does and does not constitute canon. He, in this sense, can be thought of as a dissenting voice against the authority of the property's rights-holder.

Would you rather I structured my questions as such? "What would you personally choose not to consider canon if you were granted the holy privileges of our most benevolent overlord, the Paramount?"
 
The only things I can think of off the top of my head (cannon) are the NuTrek movies and one part of the last episode of Enterprise.

The NuTrek movies because they don't really seem to fit, although the third movie may change my mind.

The last episode of Enterprise not because it was awful (though it was) but rather due to who died, why, and how the whole thing was kind of glossed over. My head cannon fires firmly in the direction of that character still being alive somewhere. So I don't deny the episode itself, but I don't think that the character is dead. Not sure if that counts.

There are a lot of episodes that I hate (Masks, Sub Rosa, Code of Honor, Threshold) but I wouldn't go so far as to claim they're not part of canon. Even if Sub Rosa and Threshold are pretty ridiculous.
 
Good luck bringing that argument up to Paramount. It's not like they've outlined what is and isn't canon for the past 40 years (or rather, they have, and continue to do so).

I don't have to.

I can do everything I've stated in the OP and they can't stop me. It's a really weird argument to bring up.

I'm asking if anyone else does likewise, not whether Paramount does or not. Issues of a work's canonical nature are, almost by definition, going to be open to interpretation.

Some people are inclined to believe that only that which a singular author creates, himself, is canon (even against his own protestations).

Others are inclined to believe that the fans, themselves, are better able to interpret the nature of canon than a publisher (especially, if the original creator has died).

Another problem arises when an authority, such as Paramount, offers a self-contradictory account of what is considered canon. Is the fan barred from making up his own mind?

Head canon, usually spelled without separating the words, is a term used to describe the particular beliefs of an individual fan as to what does and does not constitute canon. He, in this sense, can be thought of as a dissenting voice against the authority of the property's rights-holder.

Would you rather I structured my questions as such? "What would you personally choose not to consider canon if you were granted the holy privileges of our most benevolent overlord, the Paramount?"

If you're trying to reframe your question, you're still mixing up your terms. Canon =/= continuity. If you want to forget Threshold, you're more than welcome to. But that's a continuity choice on your part. Canon is about the production and official article from the creators themselves (in this case, Paramount); we can deny that Threshold belongs with the overall Trek narrative, but we cannot deny that Paramount actually made it and broadcast it.

Paramount wouldn't give a damn if you disregarded an episode like Threshold. That's continuity. However, they *would* give a damn if you were trying to tell them and others that it's not really theirs and thus wiped out from their books. That's still their work, documented, archived, and something that makes money for them. Canon is the official body of work, not the personal acceptance of that work. Continuity, on the other hand, is what you choose to believe to make the premise work.

As well, the separate creators still have to operate under the studio. Every little trivia fact that you hear about a writer getting cheated out of royalties, or an actor unable to reprise a role because of legal matters -- is all part of studio copyright control. And part of that control is, yes, canon. But demarcating the lines between canon and continuity, I think, would go a long way towards helping you separate the two concepts.

TAS remains an example of the difference between canon and continuity: for decades, Paramount declared first that it wasn't canon, despite the fact that they made it. But that was their decision to make, nonetheless. We as viewers can accept it in continuity how ever we want -- and some writers indeed have -- if it shapes our preference of Trek (continuity), but the overall show itself isn't canon unless Paramount reverses its decision. Compare that to any of the spinoffs, which Paramount declared first that they were indeed canon.

---

A non-Trek example of canon vs. continuity, I suppose, can apply to a research paper. If you're studying an author's exclusive works for your paper, canon is everything that that author has written and approves of. Continuity doesn't mean you use every single book in that author's published history in your paper; just the ones you need in order to make a point, but you better make sure that your paper is cohesive and logical enough to carry on with those omissions (maintaining continuity).
 
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I apologise for my tone, it may have seemed a little belligerent.

If you're trying to reframe your question, you're still mixing up your terms. Canon =/= continuity. If you want to forget Threshold, you're more than welcome to. But that's a continuity choice on your part. Canon is about the production and official article from the creators themselves (in this case, Paramount); we can deny that Threshold belongs with the overall Trek narrative, but we cannot deny that Paramount actually made it and broadcast it.

Bear with me, I'm not grasping this.

You seem to be, subtly, altering your argument. If canon, simply, constituted those products directly created by the rights-holder, they why would they need to make pronouncements on it?

And where's the line between direct and indirect creation? I'm not sure how many executives at the company wrote, directed or, otherwise, contributed to its creation.

What about when the company contracts out production of its material? How does its relation to the production of, say, a film, differ to its relation to the production of a novel of comic book? Why are the latter not considered canonical by the rights-holder?

Paramount wouldn't give a damn if you disregarded an episode like Threshold. That's continuity. However, they *would* give a damn if you were trying to tell them and others that it's not really theirs and thus wiped out from their books. That's still their work, documented, archived, and something that makes money for them. Canon is the official body of work, not the personal acceptance of that work. Continuity, on the other hand, is what you choose to believe to make the premise work.

I was under the impression that the whole terminology is such that the distinction is, essentially, irrelevant. TV Tropes (not the best source, I'll warrant, but a useful one) defines canon as "what counts, in terms of continuity".

So, I'm saying, or asking, rather: "What does count?"

As well, the separate creators still have to operate under the studio. Every little trivia fact that you hear about a writer getting cheated out of royalties, or an actor unable to reprise a role because of legal matters -- is all part of studio copyright control. And part of that control is, yes, canon. But demarcating the lines between canon and continuity, I think, would go a long way towards helping you separate the two concepts.

I'm having some trouble with that notion.
 
I'm an all or nothing kind of guy. I may not like "Threshold", but it is every bit as much a part of the universe as "Balance of Terror".
 
My take is that 'Canon' is what appears on the screen, big or small. It may have mistakes or contradicts itself, but it is an official broadcast record by the people who control it.

What a person selects to be important to them in this body of work is a matter of personal choice. This might be corresponding to what you refer to as 'Head Canon'..
 
The only things I can think of off the top of my head (cannon) are the NuTrek movies and one part of the last episode of Enterprise.

The NuTrek movies because they don't really seem to fit, although the third movie may change my mind.

The last episode of Enterprise not because it was awful (though it was) but rather due to who died, why, and how the whole thing was kind of glossed over. My head cannon fires firmly in the direction of that character still being alive somewhere. So I don't deny the episode itself, but I don't think that the character is dead. Not sure if that counts.

There are a lot of episodes that I hate (Masks, Sub Rosa, Code of Honor, Threshold) but I wouldn't go so far as to claim they're not part of canon. Even if Sub Rosa and Threshold are pretty ridiculous.

I wish that Trip had not been needlessly killed off in These Are The Voyages, a cobbled together mess of a final episode for a show that deserved better. Unfortunately, it did happen, and I accept it, though I will never be happy about it.
Trip is my second favorite engineer, after Scotty, and was one of the better developed characters on Enterprise.
 
I added some edits to my previous post which would explain some of the questions you brought up here:

I apologise for my tone, it may have seemed a little belligerent.

If you're trying to reframe your question, you're still mixing up your terms. Canon =/= continuity. If you want to forget Threshold, you're more than welcome to. But that's a continuity choice on your part. Canon is about the production and official article from the creators themselves (in this case, Paramount); we can deny that Threshold belongs with the overall Trek narrative, but we cannot deny that Paramount actually made it and broadcast it.

Bear with me, I'm not grasping this.

You seem to be, subtly, altering your argument. If canon, simply, constituted those products directly created by the rights-holder, they why would they need to make pronouncements on it?

The rights-holder (Paramount) can make any sort of pronouncements they want on it, for whatever reason. It is, as they say, within their rights. If it interferes with future plans or they feel the product in hindsight isn't up to snuff, they can make those decisions.

I mentioned Star Trek: TAS as an example. Others include the Ghostbusters cartoon, or the various James Bond movies that carry his name but aren't sanctioned by the Broccoli family. Portions of their library are considered out of continuity. But they were still made, still being sold and distributed, and still are protected by their company's copyright. That's canon. Star Wars used to count their novels and comics as part of the movies' continuity, but Disney recently overruled it. The books are still getting published and made, so they're literary canon; but their relation to the movies -- continuity -- is fundamentally changed.

(though a correction on my part: Paramount only ruled TAS as non-continuity once the movies were in production)

I also gave a non-pop culture example (the research paper example), if tht helps.

And where's the line between direct and indirect creation? I'm not sure how many executives at the company wrote, directed or, otherwise, contributed to its creation.

Executives call the shots, but they also make the final decisions, too. If our favorite writer makes changes, those changes won't see the light of day unless they're approved and signed off.

The general rule is, if it's been broadcast, then it's been approved. It's not foolproof (sometimes innuendo in Trek that otherwise would get shot down makes it to the air because the execs weren't paying attention), but they're still part of the gatekeepin gsystem.

What about when the company contracts out production of its material? How does its relation to the production of, say, a film, differ to its relation to the production of a novel of comic book? Why are the latter not considered canonical by the rights-holder?

This is why companies have armies of lawyers, to filter everything and get enough legalese so as to protect the company. Marvel Studios and Sony Pictures' joint deal to share Spider-Man is a ripe example of how companies treat and deal with non-staff -- it's a lengthy process.

However, at the smaller level, it's a little easier. But it still happens; this is why we have Tom Paris instead of Nick Locarno as the helmsman of Voyager. Legalese and protecting canon (and its financial implications -- in this case, preventing the payment of Locarno's contracted creator royalties for 170 episodes).

Continuity says that if you want to believe that Paris/Locarno just changed names and are the same character, have at it, but there's nothing in the canon to back that up. But we can't disregard that either's existence because of canon.

Paramount wouldn't give a damn if you disregarded an episode like Threshold. That's continuity. However, they *would* give a damn if you were trying to tell them and others that it's not really theirs and thus wiped out from their books. That's still their work, documented, archived, and something that makes money for them. Canon is the official body of work, not the personal acceptance of that work. Continuity, on the other hand, is what you choose to believe to make the premise work.

I was under the impression that the whole terminology is such that the distinction is, essentially, irrelevant. TV Tropes (not the best source, I'll warrant, but a useful one) defines canon as "what counts, in terms of continuity".

So, I'm saying, or asking, rather: "What does count?"

I'm also a devout reader of TV Tropes (one of my favorite time sinks, really), but Trek is one of the few TV franchises that is this expansive, as evidenced by the sheer entries on TV Tropes. If we were talking about a sitcom like Modern Family, determining canon as continuity would be much simpler.

With that said, Trek is such an expansive universe that Paramount's taken steps to protect its brand. Indeed, the TV Tropes page on canon -- and specifically television canon -- makes exception to the Word of God, and in Trek's case, that's Paramount. Few franchises have such involved oversight - Doctor Who, Star Wars (the parallels between Roddenberry/Lucas and Paramount/Disney these days are just so eerie), and Harry Potter come to mind, and that oversight is the result of those franchises (including Trek) expanding beyond their original media.

As well, the separate creators still have to operate under the studio. Every little trivia fact that you hear about a writer getting cheated out of royalties, or an actor unable to reprise a role because of legal matters -- is all part of studio copyright control. And part of that control is, yes, canon. But demarcating the lines between canon and continuity, I think, would go a long way towards helping you separate the two concepts.

I'm having some trouble with that notion.

I'm just saying that the concept of canon has consequences on the brand, because of those legal steps Paramount takes. There's no consequence if you choose to believe that Threshold doesn't exist. There's a consequence if you try to strike that episode off Paramount's official library because of legal ramifications -- for example, if that episode somehow dropped out of Paramount's canon, there would be nothing to stop you from recreating the story from the ground up and then profiting it; but Paramount's rights and the rights of its staff would get damaged in the process.

For Paramount, judging what is/isn't canon is a way to protect their productions. Continuity, on the other hand, doesn't do that, so there's a lot more room for change.
 
Response.

Well, I'm happy to leave it here. I have had a few interesting responses so far, which suggest that people do understand what I'm asking after.

I think you'd be best suited taking up your argument with whoever coined the phrase I've employed (because it wasn't me).

So, what if I asked what your personal continuity was/is?
 
Response.

Well, I'm happy to leave it here. I have had a few interesting responses so far, which suggest that people do understand what I'm asking after.

I think you'd be best suited taking up your argument with whoever coined the phrase I've employed (because it wasn't me).

So, what if I asked what your personal continuity was/is?

I'm also going by the definition of canon as dictated by academia (i.e. the canon of Shakespeare) and canon as discussed by some of the published Trek authors that are also fellow TrekBBS posters (they, of all people, would know how their work fits into the Paramount mold).

My personal continuity? Everything on screen I count, except for TAS but I acknowledge that some well-used ideas come from the show. The Abrams movies are in an alternate reality that counts First Contact and Enterprise as shared continuity. I don't read enough novels to try and fit them in, but that's a habit I'm trying to break. As long as your continuity doesn't conflict with mine, we're all square!

Also, my personal continuity is that Miles O'Brien is the hardest working human in all of Trekdom.
 
I'm an all or nothing kind of guy. I may not like "Threshold", but it is every bit as much a part of the universe as "Balance of Terror".

Isn't "Threshold" the only episode to have been offically 'disowned' as canon by TPTB?

Which means everyone considers it non-canon, but some can still accept it's continuity if they want to.
 
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