Spoilers Hawkeye -Discussion Thread

[The Nth Doctor]

I loved this finale. I'm impressed how it managed to stick the landing and resolve almost of the hanging threads to varying degrees...and did so without resorting to saying "That'll be addressed later (in either season two or Echo)" or surprise but unnecessary cameos from outside the established season. But best of all, it managed to do all of that with the same balance of humor and action without sacrificing one for the other, while also providing the necessary emotional closure regarding Nat's death for both Yelena and Clint.

The only thing I thought that came off as a bit too neat was how Kate was able to get Eleanor arrested so quickly (and such perfect timing!). Everything was so dense and that was the necessary emotional moment to do it in, so I get why it played out that way, but it still felt a little too pat. Jack's convenient and immediate release on bail also stood out but it also acts as commentary on how the rich can skirt the system quickly (despite the fact Jack was actually innocent).

I imagine some people will be upset that Maya seemingly killed the Kingpin already but I suspect there will be some kind of twist regarding that unseen moment in early on Echo's first season. You can't bring back D'Onofrio after so long and then toss him into the wind! Especially considering the Kingpin's character history with Maya.

As people in this thread speculated, Laura indeed turn out to be a former SHIELD agent which certainly adds extra depth to why Fury set-up that farmhouse for her and Clint. Even though I suspect the inevitable (but as of yet unconfirmed) second season will focus primarily on Kate and her life as the new Hawkeye, I do hope we do get some exploration about Laura's past, regardless or not she was (a or the, but preferably the former) Mockingbird.

All in all, the season was far more than I could have possibly expect. When the show was announced, I was mostly indifferent but now I'm very grateful we have this wonderful show. I can't wait to see more of Kate Bishop and hopefully with plenty of more banter with Yelena.

 

[Tuskin38]

In Rogers: The Musical, I can't figure out who that kid with the baseball cap and the black T-shirt with the red zigzag pattern is supposed to be.

Ant-Man. He has the Pym logo on his shirt.
Clint pointed out in episode that he wasn’t even there.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Maya's shots were either deflected at the last moment by Kingpin grabbing her gun or they didn't kill him, and when Season 2 begins we may well see her in his custody awaiting punishment for her betrayal or Kingpin pulling himself off the pavement and brushing off the impacts of her bullets.

The scene where he doesn’t even flinch when hit by Kate’s arrow pretty much establishes that he wears protective armor under the suit.
Armor of Daredevil quality most likely.

Oh, right -- the Isaac Asimov Fantastic Voyage novelization principle. The air molecules would be too big for them to breathe.

Not so sure, they were small enough to run into that problem.
Animals that small exist and can still breath no problem.
I think some people underestimate how ridiculously small o2 molecules are compared to lung cells.
There probably is a couple of orders of magnitudes of size wiggle room .
Now when going even smaller, like quantum realm small, then you better bring your own supply.

 

[Tuskin38]

Maya's shots were either deflected at the last moment by Kingpin grabbing her gun or they didn't kill him, and when Season 2 begins we may well see her in his custody awaiting punishment for her betrayal or Kingpin pulling himself off the pavement and brushing off the impacts of her bullets.

She's getting her own Spin-off, so it's more likely to be shown there.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The action scenes were a lot of fun. The trick arrows were goofy fun. I also really liked the moment between Yelena and Clint about Natasha.

I do wonder if Kate's arc from noob to the new Hawkeye was a bit fast. She is very young and inexperienced. She should not be ready yet to take up the Hawkeye mantle from Clint.

 

[Turtletrekker]

People are all assuming that the gunshot we heard came from Maya. It might have been one of kingpins men protecting him.

And I just assumed that Kingpin shrugging off those attacks was due to the body armor we saw him wear in Daredevil. He knew Hawkeye was on his trail, of course he would take precautions against arrows.

 

[Christopher]

Ant-Man. He has the Pym logo on his shirt.

I see. I didn't recognize the logo.

Not so sure, they were small enough to run into that problem.
Animals that small exist and can still breath no problem.

I see you never read the Fantastic Voyage novelization, or you'd know that what I'm talking about is not the size of the organism, but the size of its molecules. Any animal, regardless of its gross bodily size, is made out of normal-sized molecules which can react chemically with the air molecules. Assuming that the subject's actual molecules are being shrunk (rather than compressed together, which would make the truck so dense that it would've fallen through the ice, not to mention being too heavy for the owl to lift), then they'd be far too small to react chemically with normal-sized air molecules, and thus respiration couldn't occur.

This principle was also used in Deep Space Nine: "One Little Ship."
http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/537.htm

BASHIR: Relax, Miles. You wouldn't be able go out there even if you wanted to. You wouldn't be able to breathe. The oxygen molecules outside are almost two thousand times larger than anything your haemoglobin could assimilate. You'd suffocate.
O'BRIEN: Well, that takes care of that idea.
DAX: Unless. Circuit housings are airtight. I could beam a bubble of compressed air ahead of you and it would expand to fill the housing.
BASHIR: It should work. The air would be thin, but you'd be able to breathe for about twenty minutes.

I do wonder if Kate's arc from noob to the new Hawkeye was a bit fast. She is very young and inexperienced. She should not be ready yet to take up the Hawkeye mantle from Clint.

Not at all. The show established from the start that Kate has been pursuing this since the Battle of New York in 2012, training herself to become a master archer and martial artist. She already has the skills and the determination; she just needed a degree of real-world experience to bridge the gap between her ambitions and the reality.

People are all assuming that the gunshot we heard came from Maya. It might have been one of kingpins men protecting him.

I don't think anyone is assuming that. Obviously it's what the scene was intended to imply, but I think the posters here have been unanimous in our recognition that Fisk almost certainly isn't dead.

And I just assumed that Kingpin shrugging off those attacks was due to the body armor we saw him wear in Daredevil. A new Hawk I was on his trail, of course he would take precautions against arrows.

Hmm... Realistically, body armor would provide limited protection against being hit by a car or blown up. But then, realistically, Tony Stark would've been pulped the moment he crashed into the desert at high speed in his Mark I tin-can armor.

Also, before any of that, Kingpin literally ripped the door off of Eleanor's car. That seems beyond peak-human strength.

 

[cooleddie74]

Could be Stark nanotech giving him the strength? The body armor could employ a form of nanotech that gives Kingpin greater physical strength.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I liked how more self-contained this series was. It doesn't feel like a cocktease to the next MCU film or show, which WandaVision and Loki certainly felt. I enjoyed those but I felt Hawkeye wasn't teeing up the next thing.

And the LARPers might be my favorite thing of the show. One of my favorite things.

The show stuck the landing with all its various plots. Great job.

I enjoyed this show far more than I anticipated.

 

[Christopher]

I liked how more self-contained this series was. It doesn't feel like a cocktease to the next MCU film or show, which WandaVision and Loki certainly felt. I enjoyed those but I felt Hawkeye wasn't teeing up the next thing.

Hmm, yeah. It was definitely setting up future appearances for Kate, Yelena, Maya, and possibly Fisk, but it did feel pretty self-contained despite that.

And the LARPers might be my favorite thing of the show. One of my favorite things.

When they were first introduced, I didn't expect them to become an ongoing supporting cast. It gave things a nice populist, street-level feel, even though these guys were cops and firefighters and the like.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Another iffy canon issue -- the watch revealed that Laura was SHIELD Agent 19, which was Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird's code number in the comics, but Bobbi was a regular on Agents of SHIELD. Then again, AoS's Bobbi never used the Mockingbird code name, so it's not quite a contradiction.

The simplest fansplanation is that she IS Bobbi, and she assumed the identity of "Laura" when she retired, knowing she wanted to have kids and wanting some extra anonymity. Until there's an in-universe explanation, I'm happy to think that and let it go.

The scene where he doesn’t even flinch when hit by Kate’s arrow pretty much establishes that he wears protective armor under the suit.
Armor of Daredevil quality most likely.

In the DD Netflix, Melvin was working for Kingpin who was threatening Betsy, so he made Kingpin armoured clothes. Later he made Matt a suit when Matt promised to help Betsy.
So Daredevil had a suit of Kingpin quality.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The action scenes were a lot of fun. The trick arrows were goofy fun. I also really liked the moment between Yelena and Clint about Natasha.

I do wonder if Kate's arc from noob to the new Hawkeye was a bit fast. She is very young and inexperienced. She should not be ready yet to take up the Hawkeye mantle from Clint.

No doubt we'll see more growing pains in whatever series Kate ends up on. Whether that's Echo or Young Avengers remains to be seen.


Agreed that this was a great finale to a great season and the owl flying off with the miniaturized van was hi-friggin-larious. Do we assume it'll eventually go back to normal size in a tree somewhere?

And obviously no way the "big guy" is dead. It's been a loooooooong time, what's the deal with him anyway? Strength and invulnerability from what exactly?

 

[Aragorn]

I do wonder if Kate's arc from noob to the new Hawkeye was a bit fast. She is very young and inexperienced. She should not be ready yet to take up the Hawkeye mantle from Clint.

She just has to change her name to Skywalker and it'll all work out.

 

[Aragorn]

And obviously no way the "big guy" is dead. It's been a loooooooong time, what's the deal with him anyway? Strength and invulnerability from what exactly?

In the comics....

Spoiler

Maya shoots Kingpin in the face at point blank range. It doesn't kill him, but it makes him blind.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

In the comics....

Spoiler

Maya shoots Kingpin in the face at point blank range. It doesn't kill him, but it makes him blind.

I seem to remember a blind Kingpin storyline.

I was wondering more about how he's super strong and invulnerable. Like, did he get bitten by a radioactive Peter Parker or something.

 

[Anwar]

She just has to change her name to Skywalker and it'll all work out.

Anyways, it isn't like her training is complete. Her actual superhero stuff has just begun.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm guessing one of two things: Stark nanotech in the form of a bodysuit under his clothes or the serum seen in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier which he obtained, likely through European contacts known by the Track Suit Mafia.

 

[FreezeC77]

I seem to remember a bling Kingpin storyline.

I was wondering more about how he's super strong and invulnerable. Like, did he get bitten by a radioactive Peter Parker or something.

I remember that bling Kingpin storyline

Spoiler

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm guessing one of two things: Stark nanotech in the form of a bodysuit under his clothes or the serum seen in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier which he obtained, likely through European contacts known by the Track Suit Mafia.

I'm guessing the latter, especially if Kingpin wasn't blipped (and Matt was...), which allowed him to consolidate power and gather resources such as that to protect himself against all threats.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Track Suits would likely know people in Eastern Europe who could infiltrate the Flag Smashers and get a sample of the Super Soldier serum for Kingpin.