Spoilers Hawkeye -Discussion Thread

[LaxScrutiny]

If we're supposed to believe that Eleanor contacted the Contessa who then contacted Yelena who then went to New York, then we are also supposed to believe that that pleasant scene we saw at the end of Black Widow took place in Ohio at the end of December.

So, it was Tuesday and I was getting hungry and there was this guy with a stand selling hot dogs in the park. They smelled pretty good so thought I thought I'd stop and have a hot dog, you know? So I'm getting a hot dog in the park, and I hear this woman talking, and she was like "I have a problem that's worth a lot of cash to solve." And she was hot. So was her friend. You know in an "I was on TV in a famous sitcom" kind of way. So I'm like, "Hey, sorry for interrupting, If there's cash, there's no problem." And she's like, "There's this guy, he's in the way of a lot more cash." And I'm like, "I know someone who knows someone who can get things out of the way." And she's like, "Maybe you could get someone to talk to someone to get them to talk to me." And man, she was hot!! So I'm like, "Yeah." So I finish putting mustard on my hot dog and I'm thinking, "Do I want the hot peppers today?"

 

[tomalak301]

I like the DS9/Babylon 5 approach to arcs. You have your unique episodes but the arc/big picture will always be there. If shows just go straight arc, episodes tend to just blend together and you lose those "moments" of character growth or just something good that happened. I know just recently I rewatched Lost in Space (And watched the third season for the first time) and it was basically a straight arc. Of course that's the netflix model, but it's hard to remember the individual episodes because each one leads into another.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think Buffy is still the gold standard. It did the scattered season arc with filler in between thing. But it did it so much better.

For starters, the season arcs followed a very strict structure, essentially spitting the season into three parts -- acts, even. The first part would start as a slow information-related build-up l(ike some secret or whatever) to be revealed in the seventh or eighth episode (With the season three episode literally called "Revelations.") The second part would build on the drama, ending up in some huge dramatic twist somewhere between 14-16. And the last part would build the tension to the finale. But even the filler episodes really weren't filler because, even if the plot was completely disconnected from the season, the metaphor-of-the-week was always directly pertinent to the main theme/metaphor for the season.

But I say that as someone who feels the current trend of skiffy and skiffy-adjacent TV has become a little too literal and plot-first.

 

[Christopher]

I like the DS9/Babylon 5 approach to arcs. You have your unique episodes but the arc/big picture will always be there. If shows just go straight arc, episodes tend to just blend together and you lose those "moments" of character growth or just something good that happened.

People always say Babylon 5 was serialized, but it wasn't really. Pure serialization means that you have plots A, B, C, and D all running simultaneously, with any given episode featuring and slightly advancing all of them at once. But B5 would do one episode about plot A, then an episode about plot B, then an episode about C, then an episode revisiting plot A, then one about plot D, then one revisiting plot B, etc, and over the course of the season they'd all add up to a bigger arc. So each individual episode still told a complete story with a beginning and ending, which just happened to add up to something larger. It wasn't pure serial, it was episodic with an arc. I liked that balance.

I know just recently I rewatched Lost in Space (And watched the third season for the first time) and it was basically a straight arc. Of course that's the netflix model, but it's hard to remember the individual episodes because each one leads into another.

I wouldn't quite agree there. While it is strongly serialized in plot, and while many of the situations continue across two or more episodes, I'd say they did a good job of building most of the episodes around specific set-piece crises. For instance, the one where John and Maureen were trapped in a sinking chariot, or the one where Judy ran across the desert and had flashbacks to her childhood, or the one where they climbed a 2-mile cliff. So the episodes do have things that set them apart individually, even though they're part of a continuous arc.

 

[Morpheus 02]

If we're supposed to believe that Eleanor contacted the Contessa who then contacted Yelena who then went to New York, then we are also supposed to believe that that pleasant scene we saw at the end of Black Widow took place in Ohio at the end of December.

Not necessarily...it definitely looked like fall... but CLint and his family live on an isolated farm. So Yelena didn't get a blip (pun intended) of them for a while...until they were spotted in New York. So she could have been waiitng for a while...also, Contessa might have known about the New York trip (i.e. through hotel reservations), and had Yelena wait until then. Though, it would have been brutal on the kids...not sure if Yelena would have cared.




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By the way, is it the general consensus of everyone here that Yelena was awesome, and her 3 minutes with Kate was just hilarious and totally made the episode?

I am wondering how they are gonna end this season. Waaaay too much to deal with in less than an hour. There's gotta be a lot of dangling threads.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

By the way, is it the general consensus of everyone here that Yelena was awesome, and her 3 minutes with Kate was just hilarious and totally made the episode?

I haven't seen anyone say they didn't absolutely love those three minutes so I think it's safe to say yes.

I am wondering how they are gonna end this season. Waaaay too much to deal with in less than an hour. There's gotta be a lot of dangling threads.

Second season. I imagine everything directly connected with Clint will be wrapped and the finale will be him passing the torch to Kate and the second season will focus on her and the dangling threads of her story.

 

[Turtletrekker]

And, of course, threads relating to Maya and Kingpin will be continued in Echo.

 

[Christopher]

I haven't seen anyone say they didn't absolutely love those three minutes so I think it's safe to say yes.

The one thing I didn't like about the Kate-Yelena scene was... she ate macaroni out of the saucepan with a fork? No! That'll scratch the saucepan's lining!

 

[Nightowl1701]

The one thing I didn't like about the Kate-Yelena scene was... she ate macaroni out of the saucepan with a fork? No! That'll scratch the saucepan's lining!

What would Yelena care, it's not her saucepan.

 

[Thestral]

I'll be the lone person then that didn't care for Yelena's scene with Kate. I haven't seen Black Widow and was excited for her but that left me cold towards Yelena. The whole fake "Oh I'm being so friendly and casual towards you while you're completely closed off and hostile and scared."

I mean, I'm not saying Florence Pugh did a bad job but I just wanted Kate to get the hell out of there... or put an arrow in this creepy interloper.

 

[Christopher]

I'll be the lone person then that didn't care for Yelena's scene with Kate. I haven't seen Black Widow and was excited for her but that left me cold towards Yelena. The whole fake "Oh I'm being so friendly and casual towards you while you're completely closed off and hostile and scared."

That's just it, though -- I don't think she was being fake. I think she was genuinely trying to put Kate at ease and convince her they were on the same side. She was led to believe that Clint killed her sister Natasha, and she saw that this promising girl with whom she has more than a little in common had fallen under Clint's spell, and she was trying to free her from that, much like she was working at the start of the episode to free other Black Widows from their brainwashing. (Seeing the movie would have helped give you more context there. It's just a couple of clicks away on Disney+.)

 

[LaxScrutiny]

That's just it, though -- I don't think she was being fake. I think she was genuinely trying to put Kate at ease and convince her they were on the same side. She was led to believe that Clint killed her sister Natasha, and she saw that this promising girl with whom she has more than a little in common had fallen under Clint's spell, and she was trying to free her from that, much like she was working at the start of the episode to free other Black Widows from their brainwashing. (Seeing the movie would have helped give you more context there. It's just a couple of clicks away on Disney+.)

She came across to me as someone with no people skills trying out the people skills she learned from TV. By the end Kate didn't feel at like they'd had a "girl's night". It was creepy.

 

[theenglish]

That's just it, though -- I don't think she was being fake. I think she was genuinely trying to put Kate at ease and convince her they were on the same side. She was led to believe that Clint killed her sister Natasha, and she saw that this promising girl with whom she has more than a little in common had fallen under Clint's spell, and she was trying to free her from that, much like she was working at the start of the episode to free other Black Widows from their brainwashing. (Seeing the movie would have helped give you more context there. It's just a couple of clicks away on Disney+.)

I think that was her intention--but Yelena's awkwardness at having a conversation made her seem threatening to Kate--which was part of the humor of the scene.

 

[Christopher]

I think that was her intention--but Yelena's awkwardness at having a conversation made her seem threatening to Kate--which was part of the humor of the scene.

Yes, definitely. That too. Yelena may have come from the same background as Natasha, but she's not as good at blending in and playing a role, or at least she chooses not to do it as much -- as evidenced by the fact that she hasn't lost her Russian accent. She's more straightforwardly herself.

 

[Anwar]

I am wondering how they are gonna end this season. Waaaay too much to deal with in less than an hour. There's gotta be a lot of dangling threads.

The last episode is supposed to be double length, isn't it?

 

[tomalak301]

I think Buffy is still the gold standard. It did the scattered season arc with filler in between thing. But it did it so much better.

I was thinking about Buffy and Farscape in terms of other examples of shows with the mixture of episodic and arc. I just like when individual episodes stand out while the arc also stands out. That was a luxury of a 20+ episode season, even though I think my sweet spot is anywhere between 13 and 16 episodes. I guess it's just the story that the writers want to tell.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The one thing I didn't like about the Kate-Yelena scene was... she ate macaroni out of the saucepan with a fork? No! That'll scratch the saucepan's lining!

I think given the condition of Kate's apartment and the fact that she only owned one fork, the pan is probably already a lost cause, and there might not have been available plates, bowls, or silverware to scoop it out or serve it on.

 

[danellis]

She came across to me as someone with no people skills trying out the people skills she learned from TV. By the end Kate didn't feel at like they'd had a "girl's night". It was creepy.

FWIW that's how I read the scene - Yelena was genuinely trying to be friendly and put Kate at her ease. Yelena doesn't have that skillset, though, so came over as creepy and threatening to Kate.


dJE

 

[cooleddie74]

Eating directly out of a pan is not unheard of if you're single and live alone.

 

[Christopher]

Eating directly out of a pan is not unheard of if you're single and live alone.

I live alone, but I don't use metal utensils in my pots and pans.