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Have you ever given up on a Trek series? If so, what was the last straw for you?

And, honestly, there's no point in doing a new Trek show if you're not going to at least try to put a new spin on it. Now, how far you can tamper with the recipe before you lose more than you gain is always going to be a judgment call, which people of good will can debate, but, again, that doesn't mean you "hate" or "have never watched" the previous versions; it can just mean "we've already done X, so let's trying doing Y this time around."

To be fair, I can certainly empathize with a feeling of “I loved X and miss it so much, I just want more of it, done in the same manner please!”

(I’d very happily watch “new” episodes of TOS [or especially, a post-TMP TOS], or any number of other shows from my youth, if they could magically be created; and I’m very much looking forward to the new Muppet Show special. Same way I really, really wish I could get more Roger Zelazny Amber novels.).

But it would be economically unrealistic, culturally unlikely, and in most cases probably creatively stagnant to do so.
 
To be fair, I can certainly empathize with a feeling of “I loved X and miss it so much, I just want more of it, done in the same manner please!”

(I’d very happily watch “new” episodes of TOS [or especially, a post-TMP TOS], or any number of other shows from my youth, if they could magically be created; and I’m very much looking forward to the new Muppet Show special. Same way I really, really wish I could get more Roger Zelazny Amber novels.).

But it would be economically unrealistic, culturally unlikely, and in most cases probably creatively stagnant to do so.

Oh, yeah, it's absolutely possible to switch things up so much you lose what people liked the first place.

I'll cop to giving up on the short-lived Night Stalker reboot after just one episode because it clearly wasn't the Carl Kolchak I knew and loved. But who knows? If it had built a following, and friends I trusted told who it was great on its own terms, maybe I would have given the reboot a second chance.

As I always say, threading the needle between "Hey, this isn't like the old stuff!" and "Hey, this is just the same old stuff!" is trickier than it looks.

And you're never going to satisfy everyone.
 
This is something I continually struggle with is the idea of hostility from writers towards the product they're working on. Imagine being angry and irritated and having to write for something you dislike. :wtf:

It’s understandable when you consider that the Star Trek that Behr/Moore grew up with had it’s concept redefined by Roddenberry come TNG.

His edict was that Starfleet officers did not argue with each other, while in TOS they quite obviously did and that the world of Star Trek was a utopia, while in TOS it was quite obviously not.

Basically they were given access to a toy box, but only to be told that all the toys worked differently now. I don’t think they hated it, but I can understand how for a writer ‘nobody argues and everything in the world is perfect’ is something that imposes severe limitations on what can be done.
 
It’s understandable when you consider that the Star Trek that Behr/Moore grew up with had it’s concept redefined by Roddenberry come TNG.

His edict was that Starfleet officers did not argue with each other, while in TOS they quite obviously did and that the world of Star Trek was a utopia, while in TOS it was quite obviously not.

Basically they were given access to a toy box, but only to be told that all the toys worked differently now. I don’t think they hated it, but I can understand how for a writer ‘nobody argues and everything in the world is perfect’ is something that imposes severe limitations on what can be done.
But that's not hostility towards the brand, franchise or work, but just at limitations.
 
But that's not hostility towards the brand, franchise or work, but just at limitations.

Which is my point. I've never heard Moore/Behr say they hate Star Trek. I don't believe they do. They chafed at the limitations laid down by Gene and his successors in the retooled version of Star Trek that they had to work on.

Certainly it's clear from interviews that they are both very proud of the work they did on DS9 (and TNG). It's only really Voyager I've heard Moore truly be disparaging of, for much the same reasons many fans do (the reset button etc.)
 
Giving up on Star Trek...well I had some weak moments when In watched Discovery because it is imo the worst Star Trek series so far. But Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks saved me ;)
If those two hadn't been made, I would have given up on Trek about two episodes into DIS. Probably wouldn't be here on TTBBS, really.
 
I thought that the whole mycelial network and tardigrades thing was pretty cool. (Because fungi and tardigrades are cool in real life). But then there was too much drama and not enough science (and tardigrades). So I have ultimately given up on Discovery at some point.
 
It's only really Voyager I've heard Moore truly be disparaging of, for much the same reasons many fans do (the reset button etc.)

Elaborating on this (my link to the old article’s messed up as is the wayback machine for me rn, but here’s a copy-and-pasted version of the interview for those who haven’t read it), Moore’s not disparaging of the concept or characters of Voyager—all of whom he used well in “Survival Instinct”—and he’s certainly not disparaging the staff writers, singling out young Bryan Fuller and Mike Taylor (who started out with “The Visitor” on DS9) for praise. He’s disparaging of the attitudes set at the top, the people running the show, for their cynicism about the show and how that soured the entire creative environment, top-to-bottom, how that cynicism hand-in-hand with their poor treatment of people, and how you can see those attitudes manifest in the final product. Moore clearly loves Star Trek—he says outright—as did many of the people working on Voyager. The issue is that they were trying to work on something they loved in a toxic environment.

This is something I continually struggle with is the idea of hostility from writers towards the product they're working on. Imagine being angry and irritated and having to write for something you dislike. :wtf:

I was an academic scientist, I love science, but I’m glad I’m not in my old department because it was a terrible environment. My family asks me why I tried so hard to get another academic job for so long, my friends ask me why I’m still complimentary of my old lab head’s research and intellect, and the answer is that it’s great work, just awful to work in.

Anyway back to Moore, Behr, and DS9 I definitely see DS9 as very much in keeping with Trek’s ethos—going back to TOS many of those classic Kirk speeches are basically, “It’s hard to be a saint out here.” “…in paradise” pokes a little at the Roddenberry box, and I can see why that rubs some people the wrong way, but that box didn’t exist in TOS and most people’s favorite TNG episodes are ones where that box isn’t really relevant or visible.

***

Going back to the original question (clearly the issue of loving something and trying to work on it clearly got to me) my family gave up on ENT during the original airing after the end of season one. It wasn’t conscious or anything—we gave the entire season a try (or just kept tuning in via inertia), didn’t enjoy it, and just never came back over the summer hiatus and only mentioned it occasionally in the context of how bad we found it. I eventually watched the “short” fourth season (Spiner arc through Weller arc) in 2013 on recommendation of the AV Club’s comments section and enjoyed it, though I think a lot of it was novelty value of having not just “new old” Trek and also finally seeing ENT embracing its place as a TOS prequel.

I gave Discovery a couple of chances but didn’t take either time. The first time, starting with the premier and a bit into the first season the look, the characters, the writing—worked for me, I just disliked it all. I tried another time with the second season and while I liked Peck’s Spock and Mount’s Pike I just drifted away and never finished again. Nothing I’ve read or heard has made me think I’ll ever enjoy any Discovery, and that’s fine, not for me.

I gave LD a chance, really found it grating and gave up at “Moist Vessel” (the new agey “ascension” was the last stray), and then literal years of friends reposting good jokes made me go back, starting somewhere late in season one, keeping an open mind, and getting hooked.
 
Meanwhile, I found DISCO way more interesting and exciting (and, honestly, something of a relief) after ENTERPRISE. For the first time in forever, we had a Trek show that didn't look and feel like yet another retread of TNG. It look and felt like a modern, 21st-century take on Trek instead of something made in the nineties.

And it was arguably the first Trek to really try to do something new since DS9 . . . .
 
Meanwhile, I found DISCO way more interesting and exciting (and, honestly, something of a relief) after ENTERPRISE. For the first time in forever, we had a Trek show that didn't look and feel like yet another retread of TNG. It look and felt like a modern, 21st-century take on Trek instead of something made in the nineties.

And it was arguably the first Trek to really try to do something new since DS9 . . . .

Disco is kind of an odd duck.

I did enjoy it, but more than any other series, I understand why others didn’t like it.

I love Voyager. Completely and without reservation. So I guess that’s controversial.

:lol:
 
Meanwhile, I found DISCO way more interesting and exciting (and, honestly, something of a relief) after ENTERPRISE.

I did not want to spark comparisons or fill the thread with negativity but to elaborate a bit: I don’t think Discovery is for me I do respect it more than Enterprise, and I do find early Enterprise actually offensive in a way I don’t find any other Trek (and even if I enjoyed the “short” fourth season even on first watch I thought it was kind of slight and it really hasn’t held up on rewatches, for me).
 
I thought that the whole mycelial network and tardigrades thing was pretty cool. (Because fungi and tardigrades are cool in real life). But then there was too much drama and not enough science (and tardigrades). So I have ultimately given up on Discovery at some point.
I liked Discovery — but goddamn it, no Stametz, physics is not biology; biology is physics!
 
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