Have fans changed

[Jetboogieman]

I don't judge anyone on what they choose or don't choose to like.

I would temper that statement to say, when there are specific issues with writing for example, disagreements about Shinzons motivations, something I feel very strongly is wrong, I'm only picking on that one aspect and trying to look at it as an objective issue of writing and characterization, rather than saying something could be a dumbass or wrong for liking Nemesis.

The only constant is change as they say and it's just a fact that a Trek like the Trek of old, will never be again, who knows what the Picard series might bring, but that's just that, it will not be TNG.

For myself, I consider core Trek, to be TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY and I draw the line for myself there, I don't like Enterprise, I liked Star Trek 09 but Kelvin as a whole I didn't find all that inspiring and I stopped watching Discovery because I just didn't find it interesting.

There's something about the relative continuity in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY as a continuous universe that I just really enjoy, it's not all perfect, there's a ton of contradictions and issues, but overall, in a very general sense that's why I like it and it's what it means to me, when I say I am a Star Trek fan.

But that does not mean that any person is less entitled in any way to have their own way of thinking about, if someone wants to dismiss every Trek except DISCO and that's what they like, power to yah.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

yes i know as the studio wanted fist fights and shooting,i knew a few ppl that saw star trek 09 and liked it but are not fans of star trek and said trek was to slow and boring not enough action and fighting

Your statistical sample is 2? Not the best methodology.

 

[JoeZhang]

As far as I know they will all be CBS all access

It's not so bad for people outside the US as its on netflix for us

Only Discovery is actually licensed to Netflix - it's likely that other shows will end up there but it is also possible that say the Picard show ends up on Amazon prime outside the US.

There was an article on the Hollywood reporter that said Netflix had first option on any discovery shows but everything else is up for grabs.

 

[Herbert]

I mean are there different fans that don't like tos style of stories,

As a generalization, I think all Star Trek shows could learn something from the original show in the sense that Star Trek needs more of the wonder of exploring the unknown of the universe.

 

[suarezguy]

There have always been differences among fans, particularly about preferring drama or action and contemporary & conflicted characters or idealized characters.

The "fans" do not speak with one voice--and never have. People watch Star Trek--or various different versions of Trek--for different reasons. We're a famously opinionated and argumentative bunch, as this board proves every day. We never agree on anything.

There is pretty much consensus that TWoK was great. There's also generally agreement that the original show was great although for very different reasons (even those who prefer another series would likely list the original as a pretty close second or third choice).

 

[RandyS]

Are any of these other shows going to be 'free to air'? If I hadn't found this board a couple of years ago I wouldn't have known about Discovery and even now I know one other person who actually watched it. These other incarnations I really don't think I'll ever get to see. Current Trek is not as 'available' as it should be reach a greater audience. I seriously would love to watch the Picard show but if it's going to be try-hard like Discovery then I'll ditch it too.

Do what I do. I didn't see Discovery until the DVD set came out last December (aside from the occasional Youtube clip), and expect the same to happen for season 2 this Christmas.

 

[RandyS]

As a generalization, I think all Star Trek shows could learn something from the original show in the sense that Star Trek needs more of the wonder of exploring the unknown of the universe.

A good asessment. I completely agree. Although, I would argue that the first two seasons of TNG had this also.

 

[Herbert]

A good asessment. I completely agree. Although, I would argue that the first two seasons of TNG had this also.

Good point. That's probably why I enjoy seasons 1 and 2 so much. Too bad they couldn't have maintained more of that spirit through the later seasons.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

My reason for not liking Trek 09 was how much it was pew pew pew when Kirk was at his best as a tactician against stronger enemies. Like I would have loved to see him invoke Corbomite in the Abramsverse.

Fans change all the time. Of course they want something different, but I think Trek inherently attracts people who want something at the very least moral and cerebral. Even if they disagree on the level of pew pew they want in addition.

 

[BillJ]

...at the very least moral and cerebral.

Trek being cerebral has always been massively overblown. Not sure I find the Abrams films or Discovery any less than the shows that came before.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Trek being cerebral has always been massively overblown. Not sure I find the Abrams films or Discovery any less than the shows that came before.

Well, digestible version of cerebral. Trek is ‘cerebral’ on the network tv/sci-fi adventure scale. It is very cerebral for a show that is so accessible and entertaining. Not if you bring literature and art movies in.

Discovery is just as cerebral, the Abrams films are straight pew pew action.

 

[Delta Vega]

Not sure about fans changing
Maybe just getting older, it happens to us all
My favourite Trek is TOS, but after a complete rewatch when the digital remaster blurays came out, I won't watch again
Seen them too often
Can't watch Picards lot, never took to them
DS9 I enjoyed many moons ago, but now can't be bothered with it, ditto Voyager.
As an older fan I embraced Enterprise and actually loved it
As an even older dude, I stuck with Discovery after a shaky start, and now I'm a big fan
Taste changes with age.

 

[Refuge]

My favourite Trek is TOS, but after a complete rewatch when the digital remaster blurays came out, I won't watch again
Seen them too often

Snap. I felt exactly that way about two or three years ago and when the fifty anniversary came along it even annoyed me the re-runs were in prime time. Yet not that long ago I saw a re-run and loved it. I'm back baby!

 

[CommanderRaytas]

There is pretty much consensus that TWoK was great.

Oh, goodie! It's time for me to crawl out of the woodwork and obnoxiously lecture everyone about how overrated that movie and how stupid the villain is!

Dang, we can't even agree on most Trekkies' holy grail.

Seriously, though, I can watch all versions of Trek and find at least something enjoyable.

 

[Infern0]

Me too. I keep being told I should watch it, I'd love it, etc., and I might someday but after some of the 15 minute instalments from Love Death + Robots left more impact with regard to characters, story and feel than the pilot of "Discovery" then I don't hold out much hope.

I've given up feeling like I need to defend my opinions about what I like and don't like. I get why some people enjoy it and I also get why its riled others up.

There is a tribalism with discovery that I don't remember from any other Trek.

A lot of its fans hold the view that it is the best Trek ever, give every episode 9 or 10 out of 10 and if you make any criticism of it they get quite angry, I can see how they drive people away.

 

[Infern0]

Fans haven't changed, everyone's interests are still ultra-diverse.

Although now we have the bizarre advent of organised toxic fandom. Like Bjo Trimble's letter-writing campaign from a twisted mirror universe, dedicated to ruining what they don't like.

Not that they ever succeed, as Captain Marvel demonstrates.

Ghostbusters?

 

[SolarisOne]

Oh, goodie! It's time for me to crawl out of the woodwork and obnoxiously lecture everyone about how overrated that movie and how stupid the villain is!

Both are true, but I still like it.

Most of the stuff I like is stupid in some way, come to think of it.

 

[donners22]

Discovery is just as cerebral, the Abrams films are straight pew pew action.

I’d disagree on the latter, at least by Trek movie standards. Beyond in particular had strong themes of strength in diversity and cooperation, and an undercurrent of the difficulty in transitioning from war to peace.

I don’t know that I’d consider any of the earlier films particularly cerebral. Slower doesn’t equal smarter.

There is a tribalism with discovery that I don't remember from any other Trek.

A lot of its fans hold the view that it is the best Trek ever, give every episode 9 or 10 out of 10 and if you make any criticism of it they get quite angry, I can see how they drive people away.

I daresay a portion of that is a reaction to people calling it the worst Trek ever and giving every episode 1 out of 10, though I can’t say I’ve seen “a lot” of fans claiming it’s the best Trek ever.

I don’t think the positive side is that striking - average ratings on IMDb and the like trend very high because fans of a show do tend to rate the thing they like very highly.

It’s the negative side which is more striking; goodness knows I recall Voyager and Enterprise attracting plenty of negativity, but not in such a concerted and aggressive fashion.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Ghostbusters?

Did it fail because of online trolls or because it, while entertaining, was not good enough to make a billion dollars and relaunch a franchise?

 

[Midquest]

There is a tribalism with discovery that I don't remember from any other Trek.

A lot of its fans hold the view that it is the best Trek ever, give every episode 9 or 10 out of 10 and if you make any criticism of it they get quite angry, I can see how they drive people away.

I'm not sure I've seen "a lot" of fans who hold the view that Disco is the best Trek ever. I give most episodes of the show a 9 or 10. Does that mean I think they're perfect, or the best ever? Nope. That's simply not how my rating scale works.

That said, I see a lot of comments, especially on the subreddits, about how Disco fans are intolerant and tend to downvote or attack anyone who disagrees with them. If you check, though, the reality ends up usually being different: people on the subreddits get downvoted for sharing misinformation or being outright rude, not for voicing criticism. There's also a weird tendency where politely disagreeing with someone is immediately called an "attack," deflecting any real engagement. And then there's the "If you like Disco, you're not a real Star Trek fan" nonsense that seems to never go away.

Point being that flippancy and irritability come from all corners, have made roots, and can't be fairly assigned to one group. At some point, everybody just gets really tired of each other, whether it's "Try it, you'll like it," or "Just stop complaining about the Klingon make up already." No, it's really all factions, and trying to lay blame at any one party's feet is impossible. But I do think there's a third party that really does deserve some blame.

If you want to find the people who really muck things up for everyone else, fans and critics alike, I'd say to look to the toxic, lunatic fringe of people who are angry about a woman of color leading the show, or that they have to see gay people, or that CBS is part of a "worldwide SJW conspiracy." Some of those people are in the fandom not because they're fans but because they've found a cause. They're as likely as anything to to drive people away, make people paranoid about each other, and increase the general sense of division that people feel. People like to dismiss this stuff as hyperbole, but it's there, week after week, in the comments sections of Midnight's Edge and its ilk, spreading via their 110,000 followers. These days much of it is conveniently hidden inside dog whistle terms, but some of the threads that get quickly deleted from the various subreddits are frankly appalling examples of racism and bigotry (such as a post about lynching the main character), and they're clearly designed to inflame.

If you go online looking for a sincere debate and come up against that stuff, it should be little wonder that your patience wears thin, whether you like the show or not. I don't think the fandom has changed, but I think there's a peripheral party that is indeed driving people away.