Me too.
Hatin on TFF
- Thread starter Jetboogieman
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Me too.
The problem, I think, is that those moments would still be funny even if they involved Moe and Curly or Chevy Chase. In other words, humor for humor's sake was never what the original Star Trek was about. Even in episodes that were meant as total farce, the humor arose out of well developed characters dealing humorously with humorous situations (see: The Trouble With Tribbles) and wouldn't have worked as well in any vehicle other than Star Trek.
For Star Trek fans who grew up with TOS, TFF falls flat on its face in this regard because its lame attempts at humor don't feel genuine for those particular characters IMHO.
No I refuse.
You said you would abstain from the thread, so why have you posted in it three times?
I didn't think that TFF was that great of movie, particularly coming off the heels of the 2-4 story arc but, oddly enough, I still kind of enjoy watching it whenever I happen to catch it on TV, mostly because it has some really good Kirk-Spock-McCoy interactions/scenes. It was campy, cheesy, and the production values took a major slide from the previous three movies but it was still enjoyable for some wierd reason. I actually enjoy it much more than I did TMP, which I thought was BOOOORRING!
Yes, I agree. While TFF is one of the weaker of the Trek films, to me it remains much more watchable than TMP because it's not just a bunch of characters watching special effects on a screen for minutes on end. Plus it looks and feels more like Trek and the characters act like themselves, whereas in TMP they're stiff and awkward.
In all honesty, I could probably find a few minutes of good footage in this film.
I like a couple of Spock's scenes, such as when he recognizes Sybok, and when emotes disapproval to his face in the shuttle bay. Spock seems to have loosened up a bit in terms of showing emotion which was a good thing.
Melanie Shatner is beautiful.
The view to the barrier approach through the ten-forward-esque window is awesome.
Let's see, what else.... hmm.... thinking... hmm....
I like a couple of Spock's scenes, such as when he recognizes Sybok, and when emotes disapproval to his face in the shuttle bay. Spock seems to have loosened up a bit in terms of showing emotion which was a good thing.
Melanie Shatner is beautiful.
The view to the barrier approach through the ten-forward-esque window is awesome.
Let's see, what else.... hmm.... thinking... hmm....
"What does God need with a starship?"
Well, OK, it's fine. It's a very Kirk-like thing to say. I could have done without the couple of "excuse me"s leading up to it, but it's certainly genius compare to, "I know this ship like I know the back of my hand."
Me three. I never understood all the whining about how those bits mocked the characters, blah blah blah.
I've walked into walls, door frames, etc, in my own home. I've seen plenty of people do it in their homes, at work, etc. You're talking to someone, you take a step as you turn and bang. It happens. It's funny.
A starship helmsman and navigator getting lost in the woods without the nav console guiding them? Pretty damned plausible. I know people in real life that can barely get from one side of the city to the other without a GPS.
I didn't like the humor because not only was it at the expense of the characters, but also because it didn't fit with the film.
The movie seems divided between attempts at this deep, introspective journey of "overcoming one's pain" and finding God, which ultimately ends up being a lie. Yet it has all this low-brow, slapstick, sunday morning cartoon humor of people smacking into doors and being completely inept. Except for Kirk; Kirk is portrayed as really the only competent person in Starfleet. The only time he screws up is because of Spock distracting him on the mountain. Other then that, Kirk is shown to be the only rational and competent person. Even Spock falls for Sybok's Dr. Phil routine.
It's not funny because it doesn't fit the characters and it doesn't fit the movie. VH worked because it was presented as a light-hearted film overall. FF seems to be trying to be both deep and thoughtful, and at the same time it tries these Three Stooges routines of humor thrown in. Yes, so funny that Scotty walks into a beam, then a few scenes later we see McCoy having to make the difficult choice to euthanize his own father, only to find out later that the choice was unnecessary. The movie switches wildly between such scenes and the abrupt shifts in tone are jarring.
This, of course, is simply one of the many problems with FF.
The movie seems divided between attempts at this deep, introspective journey of "overcoming one's pain" and finding God, which ultimately ends up being a lie. Yet it has all this low-brow, slapstick, sunday morning cartoon humor of people smacking into doors and being completely inept. Except for Kirk; Kirk is portrayed as really the only competent person in Starfleet. The only time he screws up is because of Spock distracting him on the mountain. Other then that, Kirk is shown to be the only rational and competent person. Even Spock falls for Sybok's Dr. Phil routine.
It's not funny because it doesn't fit the characters and it doesn't fit the movie. VH worked because it was presented as a light-hearted film overall. FF seems to be trying to be both deep and thoughtful, and at the same time it tries these Three Stooges routines of humor thrown in. Yes, so funny that Scotty walks into a beam, then a few scenes later we see McCoy having to make the difficult choice to euthanize his own father, only to find out later that the choice was unnecessary. The movie switches wildly between such scenes and the abrupt shifts in tone are jarring.
This, of course, is simply one of the many problems with FF.
I agree. Plus the Scotty thing happened because he was on a brand new ship. He wasn't as familiar with it as he was with the original enterprise. It doesn't betray the character or whatever. It was just a little gag to remind us that this isn't the original ship and it gave Doohan something funny to do. The crew was old, old people do funny things sometimes. We weren't exactly catching them at their best, as Spock said in TVH.
Was it the pinnacle of fine humor? No, but it wasn't really that detrimental to the film, and neither was most of the other comedy. The "Guess who's coming to dinner" line of TUC is much more cringeworthy IMO as well as fairly insensitve to black viewers. TUC also had Uhura and crew bumbling through the dictionary to speak klingon, which was really silly too. I thought it was funny, but I don't know how someone who didn't like the type of humor in TFF wouldn't think the same of that scene.
you know, those are good points. And the seen with Crewman Dax and Chekov kind of embarrasses Chekov, yet no one points that out either. How about Scotty calling Azetbur a "Klingon bitch?"
It just goes to show that if someone likes a movie, they defend/and or overlook its flaws. If they don't, they harp on every one of them.
Walking into walls? It happens. Knocking yourself unconscious that way? It doesn’t happen often except in movies, and it stopped being funny a long time ago (even relative to 1989).
If, instead of knocking himself unconscious, he had reacted first to the pain, then looked around to check if anybody witnessed the embarrassing accident, the scene might have worked much better. At that moment, Scotty would be experiencing thoughts and feelings that audience members may have experienced in similar incidents, giving them something to relate to.
Getting lost? Potentially funny. Pretending they’re caught in a blizzard? Not funny.
Humor is very subjective, so I won’t say you’re wrong for laughing with the blizzard routine, but from my perspective it’s a failed attempt at humor.
If Sulu and Chekov are trying to deceive Uhura, it’s an idiotic attempt, which I think is what a lot of people are referring to when they say the scene insults them. If they’re joking, now we know why they went into Starfleet instead of standup comedy.
Oh, I'm so fucking glad that I'm "not wrong". Thank you soooo much for your graciousness. And did I actually say anywhere I laughed at the lost bit? Nope. Never did. Didn't find it that funny. Just said I didn't get why people whine so bloody much and that both scenes were plausible and not mocking the characters.
@sonak... I've commented on Chekov looking like an idiot in TUC many times. The secondary characters come off looking much worse in TUC than TFF but hey, Shatner wrote/directed TFF so let's all just shit on the Shat. It's a sport in fandom.
@sonak... I've commented on Chekov looking like an idiot in TUC many times. The secondary characters come off looking much worse in TUC than TFF but hey, Shatner wrote/directed TFF so let's all just shit on the Shat. It's a sport in fandom.
I still like it much better than at least 2 of the TNG movies.
Sybok makes perfect sense for numerous reasons. The novelization and/or earlier scripts really expand a bunch of the katra/Hall of Ancient thought bits that should have been a greater focus.
I also like the Klingons and thought Klaa and Vixis could have been entertaining recurring villains reminiscent of the TOS Klingons with the new makeup.
Center of the galaxy was definitely crappy planning. Should have been the barrier at the edge of the galaxy from Where No Man Has Gone Before and could have made sense for a powerful God-impersonating entity to have a connection with the Vulcans and katras. As well as dealing with the augmenting business to disable a portion of the crew, perhaps.
The lemon Enterprise was stressed to absurdity. A shakedown cruise and some minor bugs make sense, but not the understaffed bit (which was probably done to make Sybok's takeover less absurd). Sulu, of couse should have been gone (first officer and/or captain of another ship) as should Chekov (first officer and/or captain on another ship) and Uhura and most likely Scotty.
My biggest beef was the bridge wasn't all white like it was at the end of ST IV.
Sybok makes perfect sense for numerous reasons. The novelization and/or earlier scripts really expand a bunch of the katra/Hall of Ancient thought bits that should have been a greater focus.
I also like the Klingons and thought Klaa and Vixis could have been entertaining recurring villains reminiscent of the TOS Klingons with the new makeup.
Center of the galaxy was definitely crappy planning. Should have been the barrier at the edge of the galaxy from Where No Man Has Gone Before and could have made sense for a powerful God-impersonating entity to have a connection with the Vulcans and katras. As well as dealing with the augmenting business to disable a portion of the crew, perhaps.
The lemon Enterprise was stressed to absurdity. A shakedown cruise and some minor bugs make sense, but not the understaffed bit (which was probably done to make Sybok's takeover less absurd). Sulu, of couse should have been gone (first officer and/or captain of another ship) as should Chekov (first officer and/or captain on another ship) and Uhura and most likely Scotty.
My biggest beef was the bridge wasn't all white like it was at the end of ST IV.
Saquist
Commodore
The chief complaint, IINM, is that the Enterprise (and the BOP) shouldn’t be able to travel that far in any reasonable time period.
That point could have been addressed with some technobabble about a wormhole (possibly an unstable wormhole, adding urgency to the mission) or a technological solution like Barclay in The Nth Degree. Although it might have helped from the perspective of nitpicking geeks, mainstream audiences would likely find have found it pointless and perhaps alienating. That may be why Shatner decided to ignore the pickable nit.
Good call or bad?
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