Hatin on TFF
- Thread starter Jetboogieman
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While it is not my favorite of the original crew it really is a fun and enjoyable movie and I do like it a lot.
Row, Row, Row your boat gently down the stream
Merrily, Merrily, Merrily life is a but a dream
Merrily, Merrily, Merrily life is a but a dream
Great, fun film. Just like the TOS - doesn't it take itself too seriously, and gets to the heart of the Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship like no other piece of filmed Trek (yes, I include TOS in that most wholeheartedly), except maybe Trek III I suppose.
It has flaws (every Trek does) but most of the hating is band-wagon jumping. Kind of like how if you say you think the Beatles are way over-rated and prefer another 1960s group or something, people look at you like you have two heads... if you dare to answer anything besides TFF or Nemesis for "worst Trek film" you're consdiered heretical.
It has flaws (every Trek does) but most of the hating is band-wagon jumping. Kind of like how if you say you think the Beatles are way over-rated and prefer another 1960s group or something, people look at you like you have two heads... if you dare to answer anything besides TFF or Nemesis for "worst Trek film" you're consdiered heretical.
^^^Not to get too adversarial - you're certainly entitled to your opinion - but I don't think that has nearly as much to do with "band wagon jumping" as it does with the fact that TFF is just a dismally bad film which did very little to add anything substantive to the Star Trek saga. Gene Roddenberry himself disavowed TFF and considered it apocryphal
While it's nice that they try to show us the big three hanging out together and being friends, a lot of those sequences are pretty poor given the way these actors have played these characters in the past. And, while I appreciate light-hearted Star Trek as much as the next fan, I've never cared for light heartedness at the expense of story or believability (both of which happen far too often in TFF).
While it's nice that they try to show us the big three hanging out together and being friends, a lot of those sequences are pretty poor given the way these actors have played these characters in the past. And, while I appreciate light-hearted Star Trek as much as the next fan, I've never cared for light heartedness at the expense of story or believability (both of which happen far too often in TFF).
I dislike this movie because of the humor in it. It's campy. The acting, especially from Sybok, is horrible. The tone of the movie is that of Star Trek IV when, if the material was treated without the lighter tone, it would've been much better. What I mean is showing Sybok as less "happy-go-lucky" but more righteous. There's no conflict in this movie and it's difficult to feel anything has any consequences because of the light-hearted tone. Take, for instance, the conflict within Spock and Kirk's response to his inability to follow orders and kill Sybok. Instead of feeling betrayed and acting on that (as Kirk should) and therefore be angry, we get an over-the-top Shatner in a scene that is laced with jokes (I ought to kick you in the a$$, you want me to hold him, Jim). The ending makes no sense "So it's me you want, you Klingons!" Running around the planet as if it would matter where you are to this being. And, at the end, another joke "Please, Captain. Not infront of the Klingons."
The special effects look very cheap. The quality of the film didn't age well. It's just a bad movie.
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In other words, it's in the same spirit as TOS.
Outside the dated graphics, I don't see your point. Star Trek wasn't always light-hearted. Much of its tension and drama came from the decisions that Kirk had to make to get out of a situation. There were moments when the show made a point, not always having to preach (which makes the best clips), and did so well, especially in the first season.
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Star Trek wasn't always dead serious either. The show contained elements of camp, goofiness, seriousness, brilliance, stupidity, comedy, hamfisted acting, over-the-top plots, jokes, pratfalls, fish-out-of-water sequences, and most importantly; The Big Three.
Star Trek V contains many of these elements. The spirit of TOS is there in this movie.
Funny you should say that, but my dad was of exactly the same opinion. He was a big fan of TOS from when it first aired over here in the UK (probably early 70s?) but really disliked TNG, which he considered far too touchy-feely for his liking. I remember, though, we went to see TFF at the cinema when it came out, and my dad loved it, for precisely the same reason you give - that it really captured the spirit and the somewhat goofy humour that TOS occasionally displayed.
Now, I do not endorse my dad's opinion on that or any other issue, Trek-related or not, but I think maybe his love of TFF has rubbed off on me a little, because I can't find it in my heart to dislike it as much as many people do. It's definitely the weakest of the TOS movies, though, imo, but not without its moments.
I agree that this is the weakest of the TOS films, but I think I like it just a hair over Nemesis. It's besieged by problems from both creative and production standpoints, but I agree that the film has a good feel to it, even if it is wasted. I'm not sure how representative of TOS the film is; maybe of season three perhaps?
I think the best thing about this film is McCoy. He pretty much rocks in his scenes with Kirk and Spock at the start, and of course his TOS movie standout moment is with his dying father.
I think the best thing about this film is McCoy. He pretty much rocks in his scenes with Kirk and Spock at the start, and of course his TOS movie standout moment is with his dying father.
I don't think anyone would argue that the humor and camp in TFF aren't reminiscent of TOS. The problem, IMHO, is that there is so much humor and camp that it dominates the film and takes away from the story elements that one otherwise might take seriously.
The best films featuring the TOS cast made use of humor (quite often sarcastic on McCoy's part) but balanced it with the other elements that hold the viewers interest.
The best films featuring the TOS cast made use of humor (quite often sarcastic on McCoy's part) but balanced it with the other elements that hold the viewers interest.
Of course, a TV episode on the big screen doesn’t necessarily make for a great movie. Insurrection is basically a double-length episode of TNG, and it’s a terrible movie.
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Well, I'm just more into defending the movie against statements of "it's nothing like the original series", because it is like the original series.
Sybok: I found out this year from a third party that a woman who was one of my wife's bridesmaids was not only on her second marriage at the time of my wedding but had a half sister apparently almost no one else knew about. None of her closest friends knew about the first marriage or the half-sister. It happens.
The humor at the expense of the 4 'minor' characters and the Enterprise herself was what was terrible. At the begining the big 3 were basically goofing around and being silly--thats what shore leave is for. Once the mission started the humor should have been set aside. The malfunctioning log device?--somebody should have been slapped in the face for that bit of idiocy.
I know its a cliche but yes you could edit out a lot of that junk and the movie would be a lot better--not a great movie by any stretch, but a lot better. Problem is that we all have seen those lame parts and even if you edit them out--we'd still be thinking of them. "Oh wow, they cut out the lame fan dance"
Can't put the genie back in the bottle
I know its a cliche but yes you could edit out a lot of that junk and the movie would be a lot better--not a great movie by any stretch, but a lot better. Problem is that we all have seen those lame parts and even if you edit them out--we'd still be thinking of them. "Oh wow, they cut out the lame fan dance"
Can't put the genie back in the bottle
I don't understand this argument at all on either side. Just because it's like the worst episodes of TOS doesn't mean it's like TOS.
By this same logic I could argue Insurrection is the best/worst TNG movie because it's most like the worst episodes of the show: bad love interests, dull pacing, sanctimonious preaching, poorly thought out morality plays. Because that's all that TNG was, right?
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