But the Star Trek 'expanded universe' materials aren't considered canon in any form. Star Wars is, to an extent.
Has it been established anywhere in STAR WARS canon that
- Thread starter Mutara Nebula 1967
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But the Star Trek 'expanded universe' materials aren't considered canon in any form. Star Wars is, to an extent.
Only in an "additional canon" way. In both cases, if a film or TV show contradicts a book then it's the book that's wrong.
There is though one possible argument why Palpatine might move away from clones to (incompentant, headbanging) conscripts:
a) You're forcing the conscripts to do nasty things like massacre jawas, aunts and uncles - that's got to boost the Dark Side.
and b) as a consequence you force the 'goodies', the rebellion, to kill ordinary people whose only crime is that they got conscripted, which (see above...).
It's heads I win, tails you lose for anyone who wants a powerful Dark Side to draw on...
a) You're forcing the conscripts to do nasty things like massacre jawas, aunts and uncles - that's got to boost the Dark Side.
and b) as a consequence you force the 'goodies', the rebellion, to kill ordinary people whose only crime is that they got conscripted, which (see above...).
It's heads I win, tails you lose for anyone who wants a powerful Dark Side to draw on...
Or D) the Kaminoans saw the way the Empire was going and decided not to help them anymore.
My understanding of the Three Trilogies thing: in the original plan, the Emperor doesn't appear until Episode 9. In the third trilogy Luke has to travel to a different galaxy to find his long lost sister, needing her help to defeat the Emperor. In the 9th film together they confront and defeat the Emperor. At some point Lucas decided to collapse the events into a single trilogy, so the Emperor is defeated in the third (sixth) film.
At which Palpatine has the Imperial Starfleet (yes thats what the call it) blows Kamino to hell from orbit after a bunch Stormtroopers come by shoot up the place and steal the cloning technology, then shoot the place up somemore.
I"ve always thought the "lost trilogy" would make a great AU game, comic, or novel series to explore. Just go forward with the original ideas of Return of the Jedi, and explore it the way it was original meant to be explored.
Unless the Kamino destroy there own cloning facilities first.
O.K., a lot depends on what you consider canon, but bear in mind that in the Thrawn Trilogy the capture of a functional cloning facility was a major boost to the remains of the Empire. This strongly suggests that cloning is by no means common at this time, certainly not on a 'churn out an army' scale.
Also, as I recall, when Luke encounters Stormtroopers on board the Katana, he detects something odd about them through the Force. Only after the battle does he discover that they are clones. This implies that he has never before fought clone troopers and been aware of it.
Now in ANH his Jedi skills were almost non existent, so we can't say anything about the nature of the Troopers he meets. By the time of ROTJ, though, he has become a Jedi Knight. He meets Stormtroopers on Endor and the second Death Star. Obviously we are not privy to his thought processes, and he is somewhat preoccupied with meeting his dad, so we can't be sure whether or not he notices something odd about the Troopers.
Nevertheless, in 'Dark Force Rising' it is presented as if this is the first time that Luke has been aware of the oddness of clones. Though we can not be certain, it does appear that the Katana incident is the first time since Luke achieved Jedi Knighthood that he has fought clones.
The thing with the Thrawn Trilogy clones is that they were created by a different process than the clones of the OT and PT era; the big difference being that it wasn't Kamino tech, and Thrawn-- order to speed up the process-- blocked the force around the clones as they were being grown. So they're not really a metric in regards to how a typical clone feels in the force.
It was always my understanding that by the time of ANH the Clone Troopers were all gone and it was just conscripted normies. Of course Lucas said in the AOTC commentary that Jango hitting his head on the door was a reference to a Stormtrooper hitting his head on the door in ANH. At the very least, clones are a minority in the Empire by that point. It's hard to cite Zahn's trilogy as 100% gospel now unfortunately... it was written in the early 90s before the Prequel Trilogy was fully conceived.
SeerSGB, your points are perfectly sound.
I think the only thing we can do is admit that there simply isn't enough data to make a call one way or another. If there is anything to answer the original question it comes from a source I'm unaware of.
I think the only thing we can do is admit that there simply isn't enough data to make a call one way or another. If there is anything to answer the original question it comes from a source I'm unaware of.
the clones from the clone wars are probably all dead, or at least very old, by the time of ANH since they all age at an accelerated rate. whether there are more clones created after ROTS and around at the time of ANH is a matter of debate. the RC novel Order 66 suggests more clones were created post ROTS...
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