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Harry Kim's rape

The Philosophy of Self Improvement, implies leaning-in to a larger cause to effect a greater good.

By that logic, his moral compass shouldn't be anything like our own. Kim should have slept with Ch'Rega, because it would make her happy. Far happier than it would him sad. Not that it really matters how sad sex with this woman made him, because he should be willing to sacrifice everything to make the universe a little brighter.

If this was true of Kim, surely it would be true of every potential couple, which would basicslly leave the entire Federation spending all its time having sex with people it didn't want to and nothing would ever get done, ever again.

Besides which, in terms of the message being sent out by a 21st century TV show, pretty sure that would be Star Trek's biggest Picard facepalm ever.
 
A
Oh, the old tit-for-tat makes everything OK argument. Because the implications in both directions are exactly the same, aren't they. Well - yes, to someone who can't tell the difference, sure. And most of the deals you are referring to are in fact, joint ventures with China's government. Free market? OK, to someone who can't tell the difference. But also - a quick point. Interesting how quickly this very simple post about a business transaction has turned into an unsubstantial ideological impasse. "Let's just agree to disagree," m'okay?

B

LOL, there's a big switch in Beijing that tells you when your movie isn't acceptable. It's default setting is "on". But it's all open and free market, isn't it, just like Chairman Xi said it was at Davos. Tsk tsk, America, free market is good. Except - you can't even begin to compare market openness, as an American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai recently reported that most businesses are finding it even more difficult than ever to do business in China. Fact.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...624539060e8_story.html?utm_term=.3844e2934941
The US market is one of the most open in the world. The China market, one of the most closed. Fact.

C
"Government. China is a one-party state, with real power lying with the Chinese Communist party. The country is governed under the constitution of 1982 as amended, the fifth constitution since the accession of the Communists in 1949."
www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/world/china-government.html

I don't think they are calling themselves anything else but Communists at this point. Yes, they are using capitalism, but clearly bending it toward one-party service, as evidenced by the previously stated fact and reference.

Now we all know that Communism is BS, just some pretty window dressing on which to hang raw predatory barbarism against a disarmed and gullible populace, but that's beside the point for now. If you ask me, I think China's main ideology is "Dumpology". As in trade, environment, propaganda brigade, noise, education, and border encroachment. But that's not fact, just the opinion of someone who has lived in China for a bloody eternity) Naive? Do you mean, as opposed to the worldwise wisdom of consuming without question, Jedi Master? Indulge yourself. Could you tell the difference?

And - Communism is "without prejudice"? But some can't see how that very statement is a prejudice? Now who's being naive. Communism engenders conformism. Conformism is rank prejudice against diversity and individuality - and what's worse, it ceases reasoning function. What a load of quality manure.

D
Stalin is dead, but his crap lives on in North Korea. Is Toyota in the business of supporting ISIS? They seem to like Toyota trucks in the desert. I'm trying to understand your argument here. Propaganda for political oppression is the same thing as marketing for commercial purposes, does that about cover it? OK! To someone who can't tell the difference.

Now is the point where you call western media biased and all the people who believe it suckers, because media is supposed to be centrist propaganda, or something to that effect.

You can rationalize anything - doesn't make it the final word. And funny how China knocks off US scapegoat excuses but cherry picks which other aspects of the US to knock off - neglecting things like social responsibility, internet, free speech, or one's right to be alive, let alone privacy. And I'm not exactly sure how a "government" can rule "above laws" without it being simply "rule of the gun".

But again, to bring this thread back down to Earth (since it's not my job to educate for free), Star Trek is now a political property - and if one wants to consume anything without understanding its origins, one can knock oneself out. Go nuts. What's the worst that could happen?

"Progress!"
The worse that can happen is a bunch of politically invested communist elitists can with the aid of another bunch of politically correct morons rule the direction of Star Trek. Just read this thread, hysteria and labels.
 
Well, the Federation has been some kind of communist paradise without money already under capitalist direction for 5 decades.... I shiver to think what the commies could do to it ;)
 
The worse that can happen is a bunch of politically invested communist elitists can with the aid of another bunch of politically correct morons rule the direction of Star Trek. Just read this thread, hysteria and labels.

So that's every guest star playing a Human specialist or Admiral from Earth, who is harbouring a shameful secret, or on a secret mission to screw over the series regulars.
 
So that's every guest star playing a Human specialist or Admiral from Earth, who is harbouring a shameful secret, or on a secret mission to screw over the series regulars.
That would be yes. I don't trust Human specialists.. they should be called Human special interest groups. Well, only some Humans need apply.
 
Erm, I know I'm new, but isn't about this point that someone carries on this argument in its own devoted thread?

Yeah, a couple of times some have tried to lure it down in the members-only TNZ, but - no thanks.

Look I'm not a communist but it's very offensive to say it's "BS" people like Rosa Luxemburg for example, Trotsky, he'll even Lenin I respect for the sheer religious devotion they put into it-it takes genuine belief for the rightness of one's cause to fight in the streets or the jungles. Marxism and the movements, ideologies, individuals, and ideas accompanying and surrounding it have a very illustrious and incredible history I imagine your American and so am I we aren't told about just why communism is so popular(or was).

Second everything is political that's life.

Third China isn't communist and hasn't been even if you Stalinist or Maoist definitions since Deng.

Fourth a billion people are a market American corporations won't resist if they wish to survive.

Fifth the world believe or not is more complex than your tiresome diatribes and conspiracism.

Sixth there are no lizard men from Reta Zeticuli sucking out American's babies souls...

Seventh-I actually know a little history, political theory and have some common sense. Perhaps you need to grasp nuances.

Eighth Hollywood is already at a creative dead end-they have run out of things to adapt(there are plenty of book-not enough mass appeal), they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel and doing reboots forever at this point.

Ninth-I'm tired and want to take an early morning shower but I have to respond ahh the Internet.

Tenth all governments are above laws-all societies-barring say communes, contacted tribes, and a smattering of other formations are at their root built on violence. And are maintained and defended by such. No organized state or civilization doesn't have armed men defending it.

Eleventh-have you watched the news the NSA, CIA, FBI and the like have completely eviscerated the fourth amendment and will do the same to the first, second, third, and fifth soon. The tenth already is, the sixth and seventh aren't applied as they should. Well you get the picture.

Twelfth-I'm really tired

Thirteenth-the United States will be going to war with China within the next decade so your jingoism, warmongering, and readiness for nuclear hail fire will be so useful.

Fourteenth-I really really need sleep

Fifteenth-why are we even talking about this

Sixteenth-a lot of countries have market restrictions-big deal.protecting one's own companies and consumers isn't something any country should feel ashamed of.

Seventeenth-out of all political ideologies imagined or emerged in the past 150 years Marxism takes the cake for the most enduringly appealing, diagnostically useful, and utterly pointed like a sword into the hearts and minds of the masses-a longing for a better world.

Eighteenth-I totally am hoping Marine le Pen wins this election in France. Deus Valt!

Nineteenth-the political center is crumbling establishment liberalism and conservatism are breaking down and political polarization is occuring which can only be a good thing.

Twentieth-"All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again." Ecclesiastes-the world turns and has as it always done.

Twenty first-good night and oh I don't want to forget my birth is a month from yesterday.


1. China's #1 studio, CCP-approved Shanghai Film Group has injected $1 billion into Paramount Studios.
2. Star Trek is no longer just entertainment, but is now a politicized media asset of the China Communist Party.

I notice in that whole cloud of dust you raised, that you didn't dispute these facts. If this deal is so able to stand on its own merits, then take a break from those rationale backflips. You did a lot of them, but none particularly balanced with objectivity.

FWIW, I'm sure your reasoning would hold water in China's education system, so - at least there's that. Funny though, how Communist Party members do want for themselves the right to own private property abroad, outside of their Party's grasp. You're right, that ain't communism, and that isn't BS. That is pure, unadulterated capital outflow, Comrade. For some - but definitely not for each according to his needs.
 
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Yeah, a couple of times some have tried to lure it down in the members-only TNZ, but - no thanks.




1. China's #1 studio, CCP-approved Shanghai Film Group has injected $1 billion into Paramount Studios.
2. Star Trek is no longer just entertainment, but is now a politicized media asset of the China Communist Party.

I notice in that whole cloud of dust you raised, that you didn't dispute these facts. If this deal is so able to stand on its own merits, then take a break from those rationale backflips. You did a lot of them, but none particularly balanced with objectivity.

FWIW, I'm sure your reasoning would hold water in China's education system, so - at least there's that. Funny though, how Communist Party members do want for themselves the right to own private property abroad, outside of their Party's grasp. You're right, that ain't communism, and that isn't BS. That is pure, unadulterated capital outflow, Comrade. For some - but definitely not for each according to his needs.
Uggghh I disputed everything you said, and am way too tired to continue this derailment.
 
For once we are in complete agreement.

The shame really is it might have made an interesting thread topic.

In the discovery forum.
 
1. China's #1 studio, CCP-approved Shanghai Film Group has injected $1 billion into Paramount Studios.
2. Star Trek is no longer just entertainment, but is now a politicized media asset of the China Communist Party.

This. Same game but new player.

Star Trek has always fancied itself as more than entertainment but if it ever completely sells out and loses any vestige of its humor, its imagination, and its flaws.. humans have flaws you know, Vulcans and Kingons too.. then I don't want to watch.

At the end of the day you put in a thread title Harry was raped and it draws the crowds. Except Harry wasn't raped, we all know it. (Just a shout out to the topic).
 
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Uggghh I disputed everything you said, and am way too tired to continue this derailment.

Yes, you certainly did - to the communist's standard. And I liked your metaphor about Communism being a sword pointed into the hearts and minds of people who just want a better world. While the CCP itself "rules above it," to quote them.

And I agree - responsible democratic debate is a tiring burden. I guess that's why narratives are so appealing, they relieve the burden of responsibility. Not one single person at any level of an actual communist society has to take responsibility for their society. And no, this is not prejudice - this is postjudice. You see, I have actually lived in one.
 
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If she had raped him and impregnated the poor boy... Which was her very poorly thought out plan.

Would Harry have stayed on the Klingon ship to be close to his as yet unborn children, invited Ch'Rega to join Voyager's crew (Unless she had to serve 20 years in the brig for raping Harry?), stayed on either ship only long enough to have a custody battle, or demanded that Ch'Rega get a medical abortion, or taken matters into his own hands to end the pregnancy, which could have been as easy as shooting her from 80 feet away with an invisible science ray, and not pushing her down a flight of stairs with witnesses everywhere.

1. If Harry had joined the Klingon crew, he would be raped by every one. Not a joke. He is weak. So he will be used. Klingons are assholes. He could never leave, because of all his uncountable babies coming out of the floors and air ducts.

2. His (first) child is going to be an adult within 4 to 6 years, so really, Kim could have just stayed on Voyager, and a 9 foot tall Klingon human hybrid would have come knocking on his door eventually looking for back payments on child-support, and when Harry says "I'm a human, we don't believe in money. We have a philosophy." Harroldine Junior is going give his dad a whupping.
 
Yes, you certainly did - to the communist's standard. And I liked your metaphor about Communism being a sword pointed into the hearts and minds of people who just want a better world. While the CCP itself "rules above it," to quote them.

And I agree - responsible democratic debate is a tiring burden. I guess that's why narratives are so appealing, they relieve the burden of responsibility. Not one single person at any level of an actual communist society has to take responsibility for their society. And no, this is not prejudice - this is postjudice. You see, I have actually lived in one.
I am not a communist-please God. In assume you mean you grew up in Eastern Europe-while I can not vouch for your experience but I can tell you communists don't see the Stalinist regimes there as the be all end all of the communist project. Trotskyites most famously.

As for republics-they almost inevitably degenerate into oligarchy. A fact mentioned by the ancient Greeks and true today. Heck they did a scientific study that showed the US government is unresponsive to the needs and wants of most of its citizenry. The same seems to hold true in Europe.

I'll give you three examples of the ideal so many communists died for. Star Trek, The Culture, and Reality Rosa-gurps scenario.
 
Except Harry wasn't raped, we all know it. (Just a shout out to the topic).

Harry was sexually assaulted, and the show presented it as funny.

That's the reply you're gonna get every time you say 'everyone actually agrees with me,'

So... are people still claiming that anyone who wants Trek to be more diverse and less rapey, are dirty commies that shall eventually greet our Chinese overlords with open arms? Coz you see, when you insist on having the discussion here, that's the implication.
 
If you go by Klingon cultural standards she was just flirting with him.

And no I don't think we're all bowing to Chinese overlords.
 
Harry fails at the Klingon standards as well.

He's supposed to recite love poems whilst she attempts to break his pelvis.
 
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