This always bugged me, the fact that Harry was an Ensign for the entire series. He seem to earn a freakin promotion after some of the things he did???
Harry Kim The 7 year Ensign??
- Thread starter GalaxyClass1701
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Agreed. I never liked the character (I think Garrett Wang isn't that good of an actor), but he was a model Starfleet officer.
Janeway promoted Tuvok and Paris, after she demoted him, so Kim definitely should have been promoted at least once.
Although, when you consider other things, seven years in one grade isn't that bad. Mayweather and Sato spent ten years as ensigns, even after serving through an entire war. Reed spent ten years as a lieutenant, even though he served through the same war. And Data spent fifteen years as a lieutenant commander, and if any character deserved a promotion, it was him.
Janeway promoted Tuvok and Paris, after she demoted him, so Kim definitely should have been promoted at least once.
Although, when you consider other things, seven years in one grade isn't that bad. Mayweather and Sato spent ten years as ensigns, even after serving through an entire war. Reed spent ten years as a lieutenant, even though he served through the same war. And Data spent fifteen years as a lieutenant commander, and if any character deserved a promotion, it was him.
Guess the boy just wasn't Starfleet material.
If I recall correctly they actually referred to Harry's lack of promotions in Season 7 when Tom got promoted yet again.
If I recall correctly they actually referred to Harry's lack of promotions in Season 7 when Tom got promoted yet again.
Personally, I was never really bothered by him not getting a promotion. Because what I really wanted to see was character growth. And a promotion is just something that would give the impression of that. It bugged me that the Harry Kim in the finale was the same Harry Kim we met seven fucking years earlier in the pilot. Just naming him Lieutenant Kim would definitely not have done the trick.
I don't see how it would have affected the chain of command. If he was promoted to Lt. JG he would still the lowest ranking member of the senior staff, in terms of both time spent in rank and seniority.
on screen (after Caretaker.) almost 30 people either left (yes, I'm counting Neelix and Kes.) or died. Some website I haven't been able to find for years kept a running tally.
Over half the dead had a superior rank to Harry.
There was room to move up.
As long as off camera more people ranked lower than him didn't also die that the ratio of enlisted to officers stayed proportionate, because less crewmen meant that they could run the ship without promoting people... In fact, if too many crewmen died, what happened to Dekker in the motionless picture, his demotion, could have happened to any of kathy's command crew if she couldn't justify such a top heavy command staff if her lower decks were thinning into an endangered species.
Little bugger was lucky to be treading water using that logic.
The Maquis.
Kim wasn't going to make trouble.
Look at the size of his mutiny in Nightingale.
Little gimp said "please".
Almost cried.
If some of the more interesting Maquis got stuck in the same rank or the same station for too long and they felt a need to discuss their future with Janeway, it's merely a question of if they would or would not have stabbed her while they crowed "Go f*** yourself and goodnight" before they went to steal a shuttle and piss off.
It's ridiculous that they didn't lose crew in the 37s.
Almost as ridiculous that they didn't take on crew in the 37s.
If they'd have taken on 30 crewmen during the 37s, then everyone already on board who had seniority and knew what they were doing and could be trusted would have been bumped up a grade or too because they'd, everyone'd have to baby sit the noobs.
What about Icheb?
that guy was taking Academy classes.
Which means he was a cadet during the 7th season.
So by 2381, in the original timeline before Admiral Janeway started playing god Icheb and Harry were both Ensigns.
Tom clawed his way out of the dogbox, what about the Equinox 5? Marla was an Ensign, but what about the other 4? Could they have reclaimed their rank possibly superior to Harry's before the poor sod levelled up from his starting character status?
Over half the dead had a superior rank to Harry.
There was room to move up.
As long as off camera more people ranked lower than him didn't also die that the ratio of enlisted to officers stayed proportionate, because less crewmen meant that they could run the ship without promoting people... In fact, if too many crewmen died, what happened to Dekker in the motionless picture, his demotion, could have happened to any of kathy's command crew if she couldn't justify such a top heavy command staff if her lower decks were thinning into an endangered species.
Little bugger was lucky to be treading water using that logic.
The Maquis.
Kim wasn't going to make trouble.
Look at the size of his mutiny in Nightingale.
Little gimp said "please".
Almost cried.
If some of the more interesting Maquis got stuck in the same rank or the same station for too long and they felt a need to discuss their future with Janeway, it's merely a question of if they would or would not have stabbed her while they crowed "Go f*** yourself and goodnight" before they went to steal a shuttle and piss off.
It's ridiculous that they didn't lose crew in the 37s.
Almost as ridiculous that they didn't take on crew in the 37s.
If they'd have taken on 30 crewmen during the 37s, then everyone already on board who had seniority and knew what they were doing and could be trusted would have been bumped up a grade or too because they'd, everyone'd have to baby sit the noobs.
What about Icheb?
that guy was taking Academy classes.
Which means he was a cadet during the 7th season.
So by 2381, in the original timeline before Admiral Janeway started playing god Icheb and Harry were both Ensigns.
Tom clawed his way out of the dogbox, what about the Equinox 5? Marla was an Ensign, but what about the other 4? Could they have reclaimed their rank possibly superior to Harry's before the poor sod levelled up from his starting character status?
Worf was just a lieutenant jg when he first showed up in tng, making the jump to captain from commander requires something "bad" to happen or some one to leave. jadzia sure, but Ezri went from Ensign to Lieutenant in about 12 seconds after coming aboard. Julian was as high as he could go on DS9 as a medical officer. A different posting with more staff to boss around/crew to take care of would require a higher ranked cmo. Same with Jadzia as Science Officer.
Kira went from major to Colonel (wait did that happen? or was that the books?)
Hell, even Nog made it to Lieutenant.
Kira went from major to Colonel (wait did that happen? or was that the books?)
Hell, even Nog made it to Lieutenant.
Worf got all his promotions in TNG, and not another one the whole time he was on DS9. So it doesn't count what happened in TNG.
Ezri got promoted her first appearance, never again. Establishing character scenes like that don't really count either.
DS9 was important enough Bashir could've gotten one promotion at least to Commander. Crusher was a commander herself.
Nog, well that happened off-screen and we didn't see it happen it was just "Oh I'm a cadet, oh no wait I'm a Lt". Likely to justify his presence on the bridge.
Kira got made a Colonel when she became a Fleet liason. So yes, that was one of the only two big promotions the whole show (the other being Sisko).
Two promotions the entire series for two characters. And yet people complain that Harry wasn't a Commander by the end of VOY?
In "Datalore" (TNG), Data says he was an ensign for three years. It's resonable to extraplate, I feel, that given Data's increased mental capacity, ability to learn and apply, and skills as a result, that attaining ensign after three years, is much, much faster than a regular officer. Perhaps a regular officer can attain ensign after five or six years.
But put on that they were so far away from Starfleet or anything familiar, and you need regular people to work with that you can trust and know how to get things done. They weren't in a position to be promoting him and moving him to another position and train another officer.
And on a more personal note, while trustworthy and a nice guy, I don't feel Harry ever really had Starfleet in him. Maybe he would have dropped out if Voyager stayed in the Alpha quadrant and the Dominion war tooks its toll on him.
But put on that they were so far away from Starfleet or anything familiar, and you need regular people to work with that you can trust and know how to get things done. They weren't in a position to be promoting him and moving him to another position and train another officer.
And on a more personal note, while trustworthy and a nice guy, I don't feel Harry ever really had Starfleet in him. Maybe he would have dropped out if Voyager stayed in the Alpha quadrant and the Dominion war tooks its toll on him.
I believe Jadzia was promoted from Lieutenant to Lieutenant Commander. As far as I'm aware Kira's promotion just happened between seasons 6 and 7 and there was never a reason given for it. Nog went from cadet to Ensign (somehow) and then got made a Lieutenant in the finale.
If memory serves there was a reason given for Kira's Starfleet rank, I think it had to do with the fact that she was going to Cardassia to help the resistance fight the Dominion!(If I remember correctly
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Well, voyager can't have two captains. He got promoted when he got back to earth and got his own ship.
In "the Visitor" time line Nog was a very young Starship captain.
The orbs went black and Sisko went home at the end of season 6. Kira got promoted because there was a fair chance that Sisko was never coming back.
Data may have spent 3 years as an ensign, but he also said that he'd been in starfleet for about 30 by the time he was manning the blockade between Romulan and Klingon space in Redemption, which means that by the point of the final movie he was still only a lt commander after 40 years service to the fleet.
What rank was Picard in the Tapestry Timeline? LTjg? Also after 40ish years in the service.
IN Nightingale Kim said that he's probably already be a Lieutenant Commander if he was back home, and Kathy remorselessly laughed at his gall and hubris.
The orbs went black and Sisko went home at the end of season 6. Kira got promoted because there was a fair chance that Sisko was never coming back.
Data may have spent 3 years as an ensign, but he also said that he'd been in starfleet for about 30 by the time he was manning the blockade between Romulan and Klingon space in Redemption, which means that by the point of the final movie he was still only a lt commander after 40 years service to the fleet.
What rank was Picard in the Tapestry Timeline? LTjg? Also after 40ish years in the service.
IN Nightingale Kim said that he's probably already be a Lieutenant Commander if he was back home, and Kathy remorselessly laughed at his gall and hubris.
wasn't there some kind of written exam or something that selected members of a starship crew could taketo see if they'd earned promotion?
James
James
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