Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Jetfire, Jan 13, 2012.
I think he was talking about people he'd already lost before.
I thought this week's episode was really good.
Will you look as good when you are 50?
Browder is 50?
Yep 50. And looking really good for his age.
Merlin's proof of life isn't.
In addition to that technical flaw, the shock, horror and grief over Moira's supposed infidelities and Robert's alleged infidelities don't go down very well given the show's lipsmacking over bloodshed.
The desire to complicate the plot is threatening to shred it instead. I've already lost track of the island timeline. To be honest, the insistence that Oliver's virility is proportional to the stubble on his face made it a little hard to take seriously. But I seem to remember Mentor being tortured and rescued by Oliver once already. Mentor could and should have done the betrayal thing already, sans getting tortured. And it can't be to get the book because Oliver couldn't have passed the book along to anyone. All they need to do is kill Oliver.
And they are also doing peculiar things to my sweetheart's character. Moira had apparently quarreled with Robert over the Plan. She agreed with Merlin that Robert (and Oliver too!) should be deepsixed. The speed with which the ship was sunk meant there could not have been any preconcerted plan to pull out Robert and Oliver for interrogation. After all, it could just as easily have been Oliver instead of Bimbo Lance sucked out into the vacuum of...the Pacific Ocean?
But how can such a heartless bitch be the Moira Queen we see and drool over? And why raise the Queen's Gambit as leverage on Merlin, then not ever use it? I suppose we can try to reconcile it as Moira only agreed to interrogation (as in the interrogation of Oliver that led to Hoodie's first kill.) But then Merlin double-crossed her, and just tried to kill the Queens. Raising the Queen's Gambit then would be an effort at insurance, but her hostages to fortune (Thea, Walter and the rescued Oliver) would still leave her relatively helpless before Merlin? But this is getting really contorted, no?
I'll let you know in 2034.
For future reference, let me know the posting limits. If it's numerical, is it by word? By sentence? By paragraph? By topic? Or possibly by syllable?
The last episode was great. I liked seeing Ben Browder. The accident with Ollie's sister was easy to predict, but that didn't really annoy me or anything. Overall, Arrow is still awesome. I'm really enjoying it.
Totally with you.
I think the writers are kind of like Al Gore to Smallville's Clinton. They're trying so hard to distance the series from its predecessor that they're seriously over-thinking the problem.
The show lacks focus and has yet to establish a defined thesis.
No, stj, I understood everything you wrote down but dont think you and I are watching the same show.
Why do you think the infidelities didnt go down well? It would be a common enough thought by a young girl traumatized by her father and brothers deaths that something was going on with her mom and the guy she is sneaking around with. Or did you not like the way it was so abruptly introduced?
The island timeline is I would say about 3 weeks into Olivers arrival there. Certainly not much longer. I also dont know if Mentor knows about the book as Oliver only discovered it had writing on it in the cave when he was trapped there. So they are keeping Oliver alive to see if his father told him anything not that he gave him a book. Probably also keeping him alive as leverage against the mother should they need it in the future.
The plan was only to kill Robert and I doubt Moira sanctioned that any more than she did having Walter kidnapped. Oliver being on the ship was probably not planned for at all, he just went aboard with the sister to do the deed away from Laurals prying eyes.
Raising the Gambit was a poor idea on Moiras part as she could not prove that its sinking was anything more than an accident. Merlin killed the security guy just as a precaution. Moira as written is a very weak character unsuited to the life of intrigue she is involved with.
Oh, that's what you disagree with. I was lost, thanks for the clarification.
The wreckage of the Queen's Gambit would constitute proof of murder. Forensics is not as flawless as TV dramatizations would have it, but they could detect that much.
Since more than one person has a book, it is likely that every member has a book and they, whoever they are, know it. Also, there still isn't any need to interrogate Oliver on the island, where he can do no harm. Dead men tell no tales. Also, there is no realistic prospect that Oliver can be treated as a hostage. Whatever the island's functions are in the grand scheme, just being there gives Oliver too much information about the existence of private armies and island prisons, etc.
Previous scenes between Moira and Merlin have indicated her agreement. I really don't think there is much ambiguity. Also, this episode heavily emphasizes the Diggle's inability to truly see his old CO. And Thea explicitly reproaches Oliver for his inability to truly see Moira. I think Oliver's failure to consider whether Moira ever knew anything, even if only told by Robert, is meant as a dramatic irony. This episode may be fairly said to be aimed at emphasizing this I think.
As to the greater horror on sexual peccadilloes, it's the infidelity accusation that gets Oliver to interrogate his mother for the first time. The woman has misplaced not one but two husbands, and that is what he wants to talk about? Hmmm.
The scene that didn't work for me was Thea spying on Moira and Malcom. "Mom and Malcom are passing a file back and forth in an office!" =/= affair, it looks more like corporate collusion.
I think Thea only sees Malcolm touch her and stuff and assumes...don't think she sees files being passed.
You could perhaps prove that the Gambit went down because of tampering, but actually tieing it to someone would be virtually impossible. I am quite sure that Merlyn didnt do the deed himself.
Do we know how many people have a book? I think we have only seen two of them both coming from the Queen household. Holding Oliver hostage doesnt mean he would ever be released but merely used as leverage when the time is right. You dont burn resources if you dont need to.
Have they shown a connection between the list and the island? I feel that is where we are headed with the betrayal. I always thought they were unconnected until this week.
You got it all wrong. The Chinese bowman dude, and the British bloke with all his goons are actually members of the League of shadows, and this was all just a big test, which Oliver passed and is about to begin his training.
But, but, Ollie didn't bring the blue flower!
The island Arrow working for the thugs is a twist I didn't see coming. Interesting.
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