Great episodes with ONE moment that make you cringe

[Crazy Eddie]

The Vulcans are as bad or worse, Earth occupied by a fanatical government at the time for 90 years, abandoned by them in the Romula War, and yet a founding member of the Federation.

Yeah, but with the Vulcans it actually kind of makes sense that they're racist as hell because they're also really useful for stuff. They have great computers, lots of start charts, good technology, and they're relatively smart as humanoids go. They contribute to the federation behind their wall of smug superiority and nobody bothers them for it.

Klingons are just... dicks.

 

[Annorax849]

I liked "The Chase" and I really liked how it was the Romulan of all people who contacted Picard at the end, but the conversation seemed kind of awkward. "Until we meet again" "Yes, until then", especially given these two met for like five seconds.

 

[JRTStarlight]

The fact The Chase disregarded or even refuted evolutionary theory and buried so complex a self replicating program that drives evolution toward the particular goal of humanoid forms, and that apparently was written deeper than even the molecular level of the puzzle itself, is scientifically more like magic than science and so more like fantasy than science fiction. I didn't mind the hidden puzzle, but to go further pretty much stated evolutionary theory was just plain wrong and would be at odds with many other stories – for example, the VOY episode, Distant Origin and most any story about evolution. There would be nothing too remarkable or noteworthy about having that much DNA in common if the ancients did that much tinkering. Even making that program rewrite tricorder hardware and become a holographic projector is really the least of the silliness. Going too far like that ruined that otherwise fun episode for me.

I will say this about the Romulan commander and Picard's interaction – the message fell on fertile ground there, and showed the Romulan commander "a different reality where he might call Picard a friend." In my mind, it echoed in a small way Mark Lenard's Romulan commander in TOS episode Balance of Terror. There, had reality been different, he and captain Kirk might have been friends. Here, reality became different for the Romulan commander.

Finally, some past remark I heard of somebody scoffing at the fact that Picard so casually tossed aside the nested doll from this episode at the end of the movie Star Trek: Generations. Here he had treated it like it was more valuable than gold pressed latinum, but there he tossed it aside like it was a piece of worthless garbage in his way. The likely fact is Picard put such a valuable historical 12K year old artifact in a museum the first chance he got, where it should have been put in the first place, and didn't keep it on the Enterprise where it was in constant danger. What he had at the end of Generations was nothing more than a cheap computer scanned replicator knock off. Any expert could tell it wasn't genuine with a simple tricorder scan, but he wasn't trying to pass it off as authentic, or sell a forgery or anything. It was just a keepsake and reminder of his professor. So naturally, since the computer systems are backed up at various starbases, the pattern can always be called up and another cheap knock off can be made by anyone in the Federation who wants a copy of their own ancient nested doll ceramic what'sit from the workshop of the master of Tarquin Hill from the planet Kurl.

 

[Nyotarules]

Otherwise, the Klingons come off as RACIST AS FUCK and it ruins my suspension of disbelief that the Federation would ever lower itself to allying with these kinds of people.

Its politics, just like the good old 'we are so righteous west' has aligned itself to Saudi Arabia and other dodgy states for decades.

 

[JRTStarlight]

 

[JRTStarlight]

There was one good line in Discovery today - don't confuse race with culture. Of course it might amount to the same thing if one assumes which cultural aspects another person must be embracing merely by their race.

 

[Xhiandra]

In the pale moonlight, "It's a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaake".

To echo with with Far Beyond the Stars' "IT'S REAL!" Great episode, but that was pure narm.

 

[PrestigeWorldwide]

The "Jellico and Riker hate each other " part of Chain of Command part 1 just seemed a bit too rushed. Like, I get that they only have ~45 minutes (or whatever the run time was minus commercials) to hit all the plot points they need to hit, and I didn't have a problem with the two characters hating each other, it just seemed a bit too rushed/forced. Moreso on the Jellico hating Riker part.

Also the idea that they needed to bring in Jellico at all, when Riker was field promoted to Captain of the Enterprise in BOBW and not only acquitted himself admirably under the most difficult of conditions, but he F-ing saved Earth. So maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt and can handle the Cardassians while Picard is off on his mission.

 

[JRTStarlight]

It wasn't that Riker was incapable of being captain, but he lacked the expertise on Cardassian behavior Jellico had.

 

[UnknownSample]

The fact The Chase disregarded or even refuted evolutionary theory and buried so complex a self replicating program that drives evolution toward the particular goal of humanoid forms, and that apparently was written deeper than even the molecular level of the puzzle itself, is scientifically more like magic than science and so more like fantasy than science fiction. I didn't mind the hidden puzzle, but to go further pretty much stated evolutionary theory was just plain wrong and would be at odds with many other stories – for example, the VOY episode, Distant Origin and most any story about evolution. There would be nothing too remarkable or noteworthy about having that much DNA in common if the ancients did that much tinkering. Even making that program rewrite tricorder hardware and become a holographic projector is really the least of the silliness. Going too far like that ruined that otherwise fun episode for me.

I don't think that when the science fiction element fails, that makes a story fantasy, or magical. I think that makes it bad science fiction. The term "science fiction" doesn't imply a high quality level. It can be totally inept.
=========
I criticize shows for "magic", but it's for things such as having some wizard or priestess reciting incantations, with actual results, without any surprise from the regular characters, no wrestling with "Did we just see actual magic?", and no final revelation that it was technological trickery.
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In DW's The Idiot's Lantern, people faces are sucked off their heads, and put "inside" of televisions. So, we see their faces onscreen and blank faced people who should not be able to breathe, and we all know it. The whole feel is of a dark children's fairy tale, where even though some tech is involved, there's an unspoken vibe of magic, whether they claim otherwise or not.

 

[JRTStarlight]

I don't think that when the science fiction element fails, that makes a story fantasy, or magical. I think that makes it bad science fiction. The term "science fiction" doesn't imply a high quality level. It can be totally inept.

O.K. I guess I can agree with that. I guess I meant for it to "still work" it would have be fantasy. Otherwise, yeah, bad science fiction that doesn't really work.

I criticize shows for "magic", but it's for things such as having some wizard or priestess reciting incantations, with actual results, without any surprise from the regular characters, no wrestling with "Did we just see actual magic?", and no final revelation that it was technological trickery.

Example? I know Galen used hidden tech for his "magic" in Babylon 5 spin off (Excalibur), and it seemed like magic, but I don’t think that's what you're talking about.

In DW's The Idiot's Lantern, people faces are sucked off their heads, and put "inside" of televisions. So, we see their faces onscreen and blank faced people who should not be able to breathe, and we all know it. The whole feel is of a dark children's fairy tale, where even though some tech is involved, there's an unspoken vibe of magic, whether they claim otherwise or not.

And you think that's bad science fiction since they don't explain the tech well enough, or you have real world scientific reasons you feel make what they are doing impossible with any level of tech?

 

[UnknownSample]

Example? I know Galen used hidden tech for his "magic" in Babylon 5 spin off (Excalibur), and it seemed like magic, but I don’t think that's what you're talking about.

The example I was thinking of was Farscape, where one of the recurring villains was just plain magical, then it turned out that to fight him, Z'an (sp?), the blue plant woman, had to use magical powers. This was sudd enly dumped into the series like a big, steaming lump of whatever. People don't care, because they think science fiction means any old weird ass stuff is okay.

And you think that's bad science fiction since they don't explain the tech well enough, or you have real world scientific reasons you feel make what they are doing impossible with any level of tech?

This was about DW's The Idiot's Lantern. No, I think what I talked about makes the episode magic.

 

[JRTStarlight]

I don't recall the details well enough. Maybe it wasn't tech or magic, but psychic powers, which isn't too far removed from magic, IMO. But you're probably right in that some writers do things they shouldn't and try to pass it off as just advanced tech beyond our understanding. It's generally not good science fiction.

 

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Alternate Picard being a LTJG in "Tapestry." Yeah, I get it, he doesn't get stabbed in the heart, he loses the part of his personality that makes him take risks and stand out, yada yada yada. Still, a 50+ year old LTJG? 30 years in Starfleet, and he only gets promoted ONCE? Even if he's not a risk-taker, I would still assume that he would at least be competent at his job. Even Barclay, who by no means was a leader or a risk-taker and at times wasn't even competent at his job, made LT. So we're to believe that "not-stabbed-in-the-chest" Picard was actually worse than Barclay?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

He gets lost on whatever ship he's on, never or almost never picked for away teams, and does nothing to make himself stand out. It's possible with so many personnel, some would fall through the cracks when it comes to promotions. But miss just one regular physical or fail to file just one report...

 

[PrestigeWorldwide]

He gets lost on whatever ship he's on, never or almost never picked for away teams, and does nothing to make himself stand out. It's possible with so many personnel, some would fall through the cracks when it comes to promotions. But miss just one regular physical or fail to file just one report...

Barclay literally ignored his job duties so he could indulge in a Holodeck addiction. He got promoted to LT.

 

[UnknownSample]

Alternate Picard being a LTJG in "Tapestry." Yeah, I get it, he doesn't get stabbed in the heart, he loses the part of his personality that makes him take risks and stand out, yada yada yada. Still, a 50+ year old LTJG? 30 years in Starfleet, and he only gets promoted ONCE? Even if he's not a risk-taker, I would still assume that he would at least be competent at his job. Even Barclay, who by no means was a leader or a risk-taker and at times wasn't even competent at his job, made LT. So we're to believe that "not-stabbed-in-the-chest" Picard was actually worse than Barclay?

Barclay was a brilliant engineer, he wasn't at all incompetent. He was erratic and unreliable but knew his job, and succeeded well enough to survive in the job. Why wouldn't Picard be promoted? Why would he be? It may look as if it's a world of all officers, but that's just because the show is about the Bridge crew and top officers. Just becoming an officer at all is a big accomplishment and you have to work hard at it.

 

[JRTStarlight]

UnknownSample's right. It's much harder to ignore or passover brilliance, and whatever else he may be, Barclay was a brilliant engineer and astrophysicist (I assume given his work on Voyager).

 

[Tim Thomason]

Barclay literally ignored his job duties so he could indulge in a Holodeck addiction. He got promoted to LT.

He was promoted to full lieutenant at some point before Pathfinder, after years of therapy dealing with his holodiction. On TNG for several years, despite being upfront and center, he was always a junior grade.

It seems in TNG times you need to accept a higher position, or be recommended by lofty people to make the jump from junior to senior grade lieutenant. Alternate Picard did somehow manage to get assigned to the Federation flagship, so he wasn't too bad off.

 

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Barclay was a brilliant engineer, he wasn't at all incompetent. He was erratic and unreliable but knew his job, and succeeded well enough to survive in the job. Why wouldn't Picard be promoted? Why would he be? It may look as if it's a world of all officers, but that's just because the show is about the Bridge crew and top officers. Just becoming an officer at all is a big accomplishment and you have to work hard at it.

"Why would he be?" By that logic, why would Barclay be promoted? "Brilliant" and "incompetent" are not mutually exclusive concepts. You can be a genius and still not be good at your job. From Memory Alpha:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Reginald_Barclay

He was initially disliked by members of the crew, not only due to the fact he seemed constantly nervous and on edge, but also because he was routinely late for duty and often wound up on report for seemingly not performing to the best of his ability. As a result, he was the first member of the Enterprise crew to be given an 'unsatisfactory' rating in his evaluation. Riker and La Forge attempted to get him transferred off the ship, not believing he was competent enough to serve on the Federation flagship (with Riker even suggesting that Captain Gleason had exaggerated his assessment of Barclay to hasten the departure of a troublesome officer).​

Yes, he gained confidence and his job performance improved on the Enterprise. I'm still not seeing how he blows LTJG Picard out of the water in terms of job performance. Alternate Riker described LTJG Picard as "steady, reliable, punctual", qualities Barclay lacked and yet was promoted to a position of higher authority. Look, I'm not arguing that Picard should have been a LCDR or CDR in his alternate present, but LTJG almost makes it seem like he was a total dud at everything without getting stabbed in the chest. I would still imagine that his alternate self would still have the same level of intelligence and competence at his job, sufficient enough to warrant at least making LT after 30 years, given that even Barclay made LT despite being a serious "problem child" for many years.