I completely agree with this. The Voyager ones were slightly better because I found them funny. But the ones from TNG just seemed like a lot of Q insulting humanity.
"Great" episodes that you don't really care for
- Thread starter Smoked Salmon
- Start date
I'm torn about Q. On the one hand I really hate him, and most of the episodes he's in aren't that good. But on the other hand I really like John de Lancie and he plays Q to perfection, so that can be a delight to watch. But having an omnipotent being opens up a whole can o'worms (for instance, why didn't he help Voyager get home, or destroy some of the most dangerous enemies since I'm sure I likes to annoy Picard and the others, and he can't do that if they're dead). So for me it's a love/hate relationship with Q.
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I wasn't deeply moved honestly by either the pale moonlight or far beyond the stars
The Pale Moonlight-I mean it wanted the viewer to empathize with Sisko's guilt, I mean it wasn't as dramatic or amaaaziiing as people make it out to be-I was like at the end well okay yay you got em on board
Far Beyond the Stars-Sisko-life sucks I want to leave, the prophets-get back on track-shows audience extended sermon on the evils of racism and the fifties while engaging in rather pointless philosophical debate that DS9 might just be an idea in Russell's head. Yay wow great philosophy I mean I discovered enlightenment through this episode/s.
The Pale Moonlight-I mean it wanted the viewer to empathize with Sisko's guilt, I mean it wasn't as dramatic or amaaaziiing as people make it out to be-I was like at the end well okay yay you got em on board
Far Beyond the Stars-Sisko-life sucks I want to leave, the prophets-get back on track-shows audience extended sermon on the evils of racism and the fifties while engaging in rather pointless philosophical debate that DS9 might just be an idea in Russell's head. Yay wow great philosophy I mean I discovered enlightenment through this episode/s.
I love the Inner Light for sure, but I think it has one glaring weakness: the b-plot of Riker and Co. trying to revive Picard. It kept interrupting the far more interesting Kamin plot, which was interesting because it built up that emotional connection first through Picard and then through the rest of the village.
The other thing, too, is that we don't need to see those scenes anyway. They add nothing to the overall plot. Riker and Co. could've been kept as bookends, with the final moments of the episode just being Picard's eyes opening to see the crew, and then they explain the true passage of time and how they've been trying this whole time to revive Picard. But the strength here was Stewart and the guest cast, by far. By contrast, the bridge scenes not only yank the story out of the reality that Picard's experiencing, but they stop the flow and rhythm of the episode.
I imagine this was producer decree to make sure the episode was more "sci-fi," but frankly, a man inhabiting someone else's body, living his life, seeing how his own life is affected by that change, and then finding out that it was all due to his neighbors trying to save their culture via alien probe -- that's way more sci-fi than any of the bridge scenes, in the classical sense.
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I'd also have to join the others in throwing in Endgame as well. The episode is so-so but rushed (why no scenes of the crew actually landing on Earth as closure?). I feel like it clouds a lot of peoples' judgement because of things like the Batmobile Armor and the One-Shot Anti-Borg torpedoes. From a narrative standpoint, it's overly complicated but derivative of past Trek (Future Imperfect, All Good Things, ST: First Contact) without very much calling it its own. Also, a Starfleet observatory can, apparently, serve as Starfleet Command in an emergency -- which is like a planetarium turning into NORAD just because the Joint Chiefs of Staff were taking a guided tour.
My primary problem with the DS9 mirror episodes is that they seemed to have gotten the fundamental premise wrong. The Mirror Universe in TOS was one where, for once, Humans were the evil alien race. If humanity in the Prime universe was so considerable that it became a major force for good in the galaxy, the Mirror Universe would have evil humans be just as widespread because of that violence. But no, DS9 instead just made humans grumpy but ultimately good, to the point where we now had human heroes with names like "Smiley" (seriously, it's supposed to be a universe where humans aren't just dominant, but also murderous, conniving bastards).
So I was a bit relieved when In A Mirror, Darkly came about. Every human was evil. (Except for Forrest, and so I chalk that up to plot hole). The other species were tired of their subjugation, so they're the ones who staged a rebellion. It was an extension of Mirror Spock helping the TOS crew, but it also emphasized that humans -- and not simply "good" races -- were the ones who were reversed.
I hear you. Part 1 was a giant tease where he'd pop up right before the end credits. Part 2 was so slow and boring and didn't really give Spock much to do anyway.
The other thing, too, is that we don't need to see those scenes anyway. They add nothing to the overall plot. Riker and Co. could've been kept as bookends, with the final moments of the episode just being Picard's eyes opening to see the crew, and then they explain the true passage of time and how they've been trying this whole time to revive Picard. But the strength here was Stewart and the guest cast, by far. By contrast, the bridge scenes not only yank the story out of the reality that Picard's experiencing, but they stop the flow and rhythm of the episode.
I imagine this was producer decree to make sure the episode was more "sci-fi," but frankly, a man inhabiting someone else's body, living his life, seeing how his own life is affected by that change, and then finding out that it was all due to his neighbors trying to save their culture via alien probe -- that's way more sci-fi than any of the bridge scenes, in the classical sense.
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I'd also have to join the others in throwing in Endgame as well. The episode is so-so but rushed (why no scenes of the crew actually landing on Earth as closure?). I feel like it clouds a lot of peoples' judgement because of things like the Batmobile Armor and the One-Shot Anti-Borg torpedoes. From a narrative standpoint, it's overly complicated but derivative of past Trek (Future Imperfect, All Good Things, ST: First Contact) without very much calling it its own. Also, a Starfleet observatory can, apparently, serve as Starfleet Command in an emergency -- which is like a planetarium turning into NORAD just because the Joint Chiefs of Staff were taking a guided tour.
My primary problem with the DS9 mirror episodes is that they seemed to have gotten the fundamental premise wrong. The Mirror Universe in TOS was one where, for once, Humans were the evil alien race. If humanity in the Prime universe was so considerable that it became a major force for good in the galaxy, the Mirror Universe would have evil humans be just as widespread because of that violence. But no, DS9 instead just made humans grumpy but ultimately good, to the point where we now had human heroes with names like "Smiley" (seriously, it's supposed to be a universe where humans aren't just dominant, but also murderous, conniving bastards).
So I was a bit relieved when In A Mirror, Darkly came about. Every human was evil. (Except for Forrest, and so I chalk that up to plot hole). The other species were tired of their subjugation, so they're the ones who staged a rebellion. It was an extension of Mirror Spock helping the TOS crew, but it also emphasized that humans -- and not simply "good" races -- were the ones who were reversed.
I hear you. Part 1 was a giant tease where he'd pop up right before the end credits. Part 2 was so slow and boring and didn't really give Spock much to do anyway.
Been a while since I saw the episode, but
isn't the point of them simply to illustrate that the probe won'#t let go of him until the lifetime is told - and that's why he gets ill when they remove him too early?
Which really could've been done through quick exposition, even with Picard mentioning that he had remembered being sick, albeit to him it felt like decades ago. To which Crusher could respond that he exhibited symptoms of illness for just a few seconds as a medical anomaly. It would further the idea of compressed time within Picard.
Anything from the second half of Next Gen. Any of those thought of as fascinating... with some I guess I'm relieved that there's an interesting idea there. Like Inner Light or Darmok. Inner Light has just such a generic culture. It's a random humanlike planet-of-the-week, only we stay there so long that its bland, neutral non-culture stares us in the face.
Even I, who love TNG with a zealot's passion, must admit that "Inner Light" is not its Finest Hour. The community of Ressik, I suppose, is meant to evoke a safe environment for Kamin to feed and water his seed. (Is it not a bit late, he is middle-aged, after all). And yet ... it's supposedly an "Artist Community." But ... where are the Party People? Why is everything smothered in stucco, as Kamin wanders the safe and harmless streets? Oh! But we get to see Picard as a Family Man! I'm all aquiver ... At least when Kirk found himself in a similar situation as Kirock, he did it in the most colourful and over-the-top way the setting would allow for. So proud of himself was he, for this fact, that we're actually witness to him hugging himself, in complete contentment ...
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For the Uniform-Sisko is entirely unsympathetic in this episode. When he rants to Dax about Eddington while boxing-I was like good god man you've let this guy go to your head and quite honestly he committed a war crime-there's no way all the maquis escaped that colony. Now I know Eddington did the same to the cardassians but still it was completely unjustified and at the end of the episode Dax is like "you know you should have told star fleet about this Sisko: Nah they got him no gives a rat's tail.
I was like wow-he just used a biological weapon drove people(former federation colonists) from their homes-and the my just shrug it off at the end like no biggie.
And people say DS9 is the best Trek? That's just terrible I mean good lord.
I mean after that episode I almost wanted the maquis to win or heck even the dominion.
Star Trek isn't supposed to be about Rambo captain ahab, inspector(forget the name Eddington French novel) said, going on their personal vendettas, doing dark things and joking about it afterwards.
That's not Star Trek. I just hated absolutely hated that. But we gotta have our "muh realism". Yes realistic in that obviously people who like DS9 are so cynical, so unimaginative, so immersed in the terrors and travails of today's world they can't imagine a better tomorrow without snickering like snide bullies.
I was like wow-he just used a biological weapon drove people(former federation colonists) from their homes-and the my just shrug it off at the end like no biggie.
And people say DS9 is the best Trek? That's just terrible I mean good lord.
I mean after that episode I almost wanted the maquis to win or heck even the dominion.
Star Trek isn't supposed to be about Rambo captain ahab, inspector(forget the name Eddington French novel) said, going on their personal vendettas, doing dark things and joking about it afterwards.
That's not Star Trek. I just hated absolutely hated that. But we gotta have our "muh realism". Yes realistic in that obviously people who like DS9 are so cynical, so unimaginative, so immersed in the terrors and travails of today's world they can't imagine a better tomorrow without snickering like snide bullies.
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What a ridiculous, extreme, utterly wrong-headed picture you've formed of anyone who likes DS9, when those who love DS9 generally love it for the same reasons anyone loves Trek in general.
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That episode was very, very unusual. It's one single act of Sisko's that's meant to surprise you and get you thinking. It's not typical of Sisko and DS9 any more than Kirk's General Order 24 in Taste of Armageddon is typical of TOS.
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Sisko, on Dax's advice, was playing the part of an ego-threatened clichéd cynical villain, to manipulate Eddington, who was lost in Les Miserables.
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Sisko's worst moment, but not at ALL typical. My problem is this assumption that a planet can be easily and completely evacuated, so no harm done, and that no life on an entire planet matters except a small number of colonists, so wiping out animal and plant life is just fine.
I imagine that biological warfare would be seen quite a bit different than self-defense from a civilization that is killing people that stumble into their game.
I always think of "For the Uniform" when people point to irrational actions by Starfleet. Far more than the Cadet-to-Captain of the Abrams films. Sisko didn't even get a slap on the wrist.
Okay I'll walk back on all DS9 fans, Eddington lost in his fantasy okay then how is the viewer supposed to take him seriously as a villain or antagonist, Eddington says at the beginning the maquis were his burden and concern-Sisko poisoning a planet shouldn't cause him to give up but to go down as a martyr seeking to avenge his people.
Second point-I strongly doubt all the maquis colonists escaped if not Sisko committed a war crime period.
Third point-given Sisko's personal feelings of betrayal and rage at the loss of trust he should have been kept at least 10 LYers away from the action-because he sure as heck didn't act professional-he was emotionally compromised and that clearly affected his behavior hence if I were his superior I would have ordered him off.
Fourth point-it was dark and dreary episode where I found myself rooting for Eddington hence a bad episode by definition.
Another vote for The Menagerie. The tribunal plot goes nowhere, and I have some issues with its implications.
Admittedly, some of those implications are left over from The Cage. It doesn't really count as an episode, but many fans do seem to hold it up as a great 'woulda, coulda, shoulda'. Hence, I'm also giving it an honourable mention.
Admittedly, some of those implications are left over from The Cage. It doesn't really count as an episode, but many fans do seem to hold it up as a great 'woulda, coulda, shoulda'. Hence, I'm also giving it an honourable mention.
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I'm not a fan of DS9 either.
But let's keep our feedback to the show, not the fans.
Thanks.
I've never been a huge fan of "Measure of a Man," which I think is dull and repetitive of sci-fi themes that have (had?) been around for years.
"Yesterday's Enterprise" was fun at first, but the "repeat viewing" value is pretty low for me.
"I, Borg" does absolutely nothing for me.
"Yesterday's Enterprise" was fun at first, but the "repeat viewing" value is pretty low for me.
"I, Borg" does absolutely nothing for me.
I'm sorry I got carried away in my rant-forgive me
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