Graython Tolar
- Thread starter Flying Spaghetti Monster
- Start date
Tolar may resent the Klingons, but I doubt his kind would fare any better under Dominion overlordship (though I suspect that if he were petty enough, the doms would leave the matter of his capture to the local authoritities). But all in all, I see no reason why he'd want the Dominion to win and sabotage the project on purpose. He might have been a dead man in any case but his behaviour doesn't give me the impression he realised that himself.
Garak's plan couldn't have unfolded any other way than it did. He had to plant the bomb while the senator was talking to Sisko. He wouldn't be able to remove the bomb if the rod passed inspection. And he certainly couldn't risk letting the rod go back to further inspection on Romulus while also having an unexploded bomb sitting on the Senator's shuttle waiting to be discovered. Garak passed sentence on both the Senator and Tolar long before anyone tested the rod's authenticity.
Wasn't the subtext that Tolar was a pederast or some sort of sexual criminal? I suspect he was always living on borrowed time.
I think he was just a pervert. He probably made pornographic holosuite programs-given his implied statement to Sisko.
In general though he was a dead man regardless. Even if the rod passed inspection, Vreenak had to die to plausibly ensure the romulans would buy the forgery. Basically the outcome was the same whether Vreenak said it was fake or its real.
Tolar could not be allowed to live, given he’s a craven criminal low life who would likely talk as soon as he was out of Sisko and Garak’s control. The former is what makes him so useful-he’s disposable, no one is going to investigate or mourn his death. So no one would ask questions as to how he died or why.
Basically Garak had one goal in mind-plant a bomb on the shuttle, kill Vreenak, and thus the romulans would believe the forgery whether Vreenak was fooled or not. There was no scenario where Vreenak and Tolar lived. At least one where Sisko and Garak succeeded in their plot.
In general though he was a dead man regardless. Even if the rod passed inspection, Vreenak had to die to plausibly ensure the romulans would buy the forgery. Basically the outcome was the same whether Vreenak said it was fake or its real.
Tolar could not be allowed to live, given he’s a craven criminal low life who would likely talk as soon as he was out of Sisko and Garak’s control. The former is what makes him so useful-he’s disposable, no one is going to investigate or mourn his death. So no one would ask questions as to how he died or why.
Basically Garak had one goal in mind-plant a bomb on the shuttle, kill Vreenak, and thus the romulans would believe the forgery whether Vreenak was fooled or not. There was no scenario where Vreenak and Tolar lived. At least one where Sisko and Garak succeeded in their plot.
He probably ripped off the wrong Klingon.
Meaning, a Klingon.
Meaning, a Klingon.
I doubt that was the reason why he was on death row.
Given he was familiar with Garak, and he couldn’t help from trying to stab Quark over a dance in a bar-he probably was involved deeply in the criminal element. Doing all sorts of illicit projects for shady people. But we can only infer.
It’s notable Garak didn’t hold high hopes that Tolar would be up to the task of the forgery. Implying he wasn’t some master criminal forger or something like that.
Good point.
His reasoning was likely explicitly because if something happened to Tolar, no one would bother asking quedtions.
Neat, organized, and tidy. Just like our favorite Cardassian tailor.
His reasoning was likely explicitly because if something happened to Tolar, no one would bother asking quedtions.
Neat, organized, and tidy. Just like our favorite Cardassian tailor.
Could have been anything, and even related to his "job". He seems to have had experience in creating holodeck programs based on imagery of existing persons. Perhaps a high ranking Klingon thought imagery of his underage daughter served as a template for one of those ...
Or then, it could have been just plain old theft+violence.
Tiron wept at the news of his death.
I didn't remember the sexual part. Seems odd on the part of the writers, if they came up with some wholly unconnected crime that he was actually guilty of. Isn't that the classic sort of thing repressive regimes throw people in jail for when the real "crime" would be too embarrassing to the regime to talk about? And don't talk to me seriously about Klingon honor. For conquering empires, that sort of talk is overcompensating propaganda, even though proles like Worf believe in it.
ahhh, could be! Odo might be the one person that could protect you from Garak..maybe...
It might have worked even better for the story to have Tolar flee the station, to emphasize just how terrified he was once he learned Garak was part of the scheme, then Sisko would have to go snatch him back up, and realize just how ghastly Garak is.
He's a forger, so they probably caught him forging something. They weren't going to execute him, but enjoyed tormenting him with the threat of execution.
My question is: Did Sisko do him a favor by getting him killed, or were his chances better in the Klingon prison?
Given the treatment of Lorca and others in DISCOVERY, I'd say his fate was better than what was in store for him with the Klingons.
Klingon prison? Kirk, McCoy, and Archer all escaped them. And Archer’s aged Klingon attorney chose to stay in one — the worst one— so that he might have a chance at returning to public life to fight the good fight. Who knows how many others also got out. Maybe bought themselves out
Let’s not pretend that prison is worse than death, again, to make it easier for our “heroes” to sleep at night.
Let’s not pretend that prison is worse than death, again, to make it easier for our “heroes” to sleep at night.
Klingons might have a sonewhat easier time, physically, in Rura Penthe than any other species. Probably the reason why Chekov said it was known everywhere as the 'aliens' graveyard'... keeping in mind this is a Klingon run prison, if you aren't Klingon, you are an alien. And Archer was there 100 years before Kirk's era, so conditions may have gotten far worse.
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