Grade: Roger Moore's James Bond movies

[Starkers]

Which movie was it where RM is supposed to fight all these Karate Guys, and when one of them bows he kicks him in the face? That always cracked me up.

Sadly, the scene ends with Roger running away, and letting Lt. Hip and a pair of Asian schoolgirls do his dirty work. So much for Bond being a badass.

He doesn't run away, he steps in front of the girls to tackle the karate guys, they immediately push him out of the way and start kicking bottom. Rog doesn't run away, as you term it, until Hip foolishly drives off leaving him behind!

Bear in mind also that before Hip and the schoolgirls show up Rog has already defeated chula (I think its his name) who appears to be the biggest bad ass the school has!

 

[Starkers]

Thankfully Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan (let's ignore Die Another Day), and Daniel Craig came afterwards to wash the bitter taste out of our mouths.

For me, it's less about the actor playing Bond, than it is the writing of the movies. Although, I must admit, I have yet to warm up to Daniel Craig. Maybe next time.

I think Daniel Craig is doing a good job of doing what they're asking him to do. I just think the tone for his James Bond movies is all wrong. I prefer my James Bond movies to be more fun. Casino Royale had its moments and even flashes of brilliance but it grinds to a halt every time they go back to the poker room. Quantum of Solace is depressing shit. I don't want to go into a James Bond movie only for it to remind me every few minutes of how terrible a place the world is today.

You're certainly right that it's more often writing than acting. Another example: Sean Connery. I think he's brilliant in the role but all of his movies are so damn dull! From Russia with Love is OK and Goldfinger has a few iconic scenes and an admittedly genius villain plan. But other than that, I can't stand Connery's films.

And so long as we're bringing up Die Another Day, I think the 1st half of that movie is brilliant-- the hovercraft chase, the opening credits where the North Koreans torture Bond, exposing the honey trap in the Chinese hotel, the swordfight. It's only when they get to the ice hotel that things start to fall apart, what with the invisible car, all the lasers, & the cyber-backpack.

It is odd but Connery is my least favourite Bond, I dunno, there's just something wholly unlikeable about him in this role-he's a thug, and not an especially human one. Say what you like about Lazenby, but OHMSS needed him. Imagine the end scene with Connery, hard to imagine him being upset at the death of any girl really.

I still really like DAD as well, though I'd go a step further than you, for me it doesn't lose it until the plane at the end and Gustav Graves getting into his robot suit...oh dear, and more Halle Berry, yuk--I so wanted Miranda to win that fight!. I can take the invisible car because it is at least plausible, certainly more plausible than many things in Bond over the years.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Which movie was it where RM is supposed to fight all these Karate Guys, and when one of them bows he kicks him in the face? That always cracked me up.

I note that despite two posts referring to your question, nobody has actually answered it yet!

The answer is The Man With the Golden Gun.

Anyone else think it's kinda funny how each of the first few Moore Bond movies were obviously influenced by trends in movies? LALD is clearly influenced by blaxploitation. TMWTGG by Bruce Lee and martial arts movies. TSWLM by Jaws - it's largely set at sea, the main villain owns a shark and one villain even is called Jaws! Moonraker is clearly a response to Star Wars (the end of TSWLM promises that Bond will return in For Your Eyes Only but they decided to do Moonraker after the success of Lucas' movie).

 

[Holdfast]

And so long as we're bringing up Die Another Day, I think the 1st half of that movie is brilliant-- the hovercraft chase, the opening credits where the North Koreans torture Bond, exposing the honey trap in the Chinese hotel, the swordfight. It's only when they get to the ice hotel that things start to fall apart, what with the invisible car, all the lasers, & the cyber-backpack.

I still really like DAD as well, though I'd go a step further than you, for me it doesn't lose it until the plane at the end and Gustav Graves getting into his robot suit...oh dear, and more Halle Berry, yuk--I so wanted Miranda to win that fight!. I can take the invisible car because it is at least plausible, certainly more plausible than many things in Bond over the years.

Yeah, I like DAD too, but for me it falls apart right around where Miranda Frost reveals she's working for Graves. The car chase with Zhao is pretty humorous in places (esp. where they're one-upping each other with the toys built into their cars), but after that it just goes horribly wrong. I was rooting for Frost in the fight against Halle Berry in the plane, too... Rosamund Pike...

On topic:

Live And Let Die - I like this, probably about a B+. Good villains, good love interest, solid action. Very "of its time" with the whole blaxploitation feel, but not bad at all.

The Man With The Golden Gun - I really, really want to like this because the character of Scaramanga and his gimmicky gun is really fun, but most of it is just dull. C.

The Spy Who Loved Me - I'm very fond of this one, and it has the best Bond car in the amphibious Lotus. A.

Moonraker - you know, it's wacky, but I like it. B+.

For Your Eyes Only - Forgettable, but a good theme song. C.

Octopussy - As someone upthread said, I have no idea whether I've watched it all the way through in one sitting. Some fantastic elements, but really bad execution. D. Wait, this is the one with Bond arriving in a tux in a fake crocodile, isn't it? Upgrade to a C, just for that. Fun fact: I had an Octopussy T-shirt as a kid, with the Octopussy logo on it. It had those bead/rolling-eyes it it; awesome.

A View To Kill - First thirty minutes is good, then it become really boring until the last 20 minutes. D.

 

[Starkers]

Which movie was it where RM is supposed to fight all these Karate Guys, and when one of them bows he kicks him in the face? That always cracked me up.

I note that despite two posts referring to your question, nobody has actually answered it yet!

The answer is The Man With the Golden Gun.

Anyone else think it's kinda funny how each of the first few Moore Bond movies were obviously influenced by trends in movies? LALD is clearly influenced by blaxploitation. TMWTGG by Bruce Lee and martial arts movies. TSWLM by Jaws - it's largely set at sea, the main villain owns a shark and one villain even is called Jaws! Moonraker is clearly a response to Star Wars (the end of TSWLM promises that Bond will return in For Your Eyes Only but they decided to do Moonraker after the success of Lucas' movie).

It's not just Moore's films that are influenced by other trends. Bond has only set the trend in the 60's, after that it has pretty much reflected what's around it--you cite good examples, I'd mention Bond's gun in LaLD as well, out with the Walther, in with a big F' off .44 magnum...and what film came out around the same time? Dirty Harry.

Licence to Kill was an attempt to jump on the gritty American action/thriller Lethal Weapon et all genre, and obviously Daniel Craig's films are somewhat Bournish... It's what Bond does, and he'll outlive Bourne the same way he outlived Harry Callaghan, because the franchise's great strength is the ability to change with the times. Bond is all dark and gritty now, but it wouldn't surprise me if by 2013 we're back to bad puns and a more lighthearted 007.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Mankiewicz didn't write the Richard Lester portions of Superman II, which the redneck sheriff scenes are part of.

Actually, check the IMDB entry re the writing of the movie. Mankiewicz has an uncredited involvement. Just the same as he did with the first one. I find it hard to believe that the use of such a similar character could be down to anyone other than him.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081573/fullcredits#writers

Like cardinal biggles said, Mankiewicz is listed as an uncredited rewriter for the portions of the film that Richard Donner shot. He refused to have anything to do with the film after Richard Donner was fired. Although, I suppose it's possible that the redneck sheriff character was present in Mankiewicz's draft but just hadn't been shot yet before Richard Lester took over as director. It's certainly in keeping with some of the goofiness in the 1st Superman movie. (Remember Otis?)

Adding to the weirdness is the fact that Guy Hamilton, the director of the 2 007 movies in question was also the original choice to direct the 1st 2 Superman movies. He had to quit when the production was moved from Italy to England because he's a tax exile who can only spend 30 days per year in England.

It's what Bond does, and he'll outlive Bourne the same way he outlived Harry Callaghan, because the franchise's great strength is the ability to change with the times. Bond is all dark and gritty now, but it wouldn't surprise me if by 2013 we're back to bad puns and a more lighthearted 007.

I hope so. I'm waiting for the movie pendulum to swing the other way, away from dark & gritty. In addition to the James Bond movies having become so damn dark & depressing, I also find myself missing Tim Burton's very stylized take on the Batman movies.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Mankiewicz didn't write the Richard Lester portions of Superman II, which the redneck sheriff scenes are part of.

Actually, check the IMDB entry re the writing of the movie. Mankiewicz has an uncredited involvement. Just the same as he did with the first one. I find it hard to believe that the use of such a similar character could be down to anyone other than him.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081573/fullcredits#writers

Like cardinal biggles said, Mankiewicz is listed as an uncredited rewriter for the portions of the film that Richard Donner shot. He refused to have anything to do with the film after Richard Donner was fired. Although, I suppose it's possible that the redneck sheriff character was present in Mankiewicz's draft but just hadn't been shot yet before Richard Lester took over as director. It's certainly in keeping with some of the goofiness in the 1st Superman movie. (Remember Otis?)

I still haven't seen Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut, but I believe they cut all the Clifton James material, which would either support the idea that it was added after Donner was fired and Mankiewicz quit, or else it's material that Mankiewicz wrote, but Donner wouldn't have used, or would have filmed so differently from Lester that Lester's version was incompatible with the new cut of Superman II.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Oh, and I keep forgetting to grade these damned films...

Live and Let Die — C-
It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible either. Jane Seymour was great, Yaphet Kotto was only so-so, and Geoffrey Holder was the bomb. Great song by Paul McCartney and Wings; the score by George Martin was okay. Of the non-Barry composers they've used before David Arnold joined up, Martin's score remains the least dated. And goddamn, I hate Clifton James.

The Man with the Golden Gun — D-
Awful, awful, awful. The only redeeming thing in this film is Christopher Lee. They did an awesome car jump and ruin it with Clifton James (again! oy!) and a slide whistle. I've already sounded off on Bond and the schoolgirls, but if that wasn't embarrassing enough, there's all the shit with friggin' Tattoo. I half expected him to shout "De plane, boss, de plane!" when Bond landed at Scaramanga's island. The energy crisis stuff is dated, and Mary Goodnight is possibly the worst Bond Girl ever. And as the final insult, Moore defeats Scaramanga by impersonating his own wax dummy. If ever there was a moment that summed up Moore's tenure, this was it. Well, that and the clown suit in Octopussy.

The Spy Who Loved Me — A-
Now this is more like it. Yeah, Stromberg is basically a poor man's Blofeld, but this film is so much fun... Jaws is totally badass, there's some spectacular location work in Egypt, and Moore finally finds a balance between his attempts to be too Sean Connery in the first two films, and his excessive silliness in the last two films. Wet Nellie is still one of my favorite Bond cars. Horribly dated disco score by Marvin Hamlisch.

Moonraker — B-
This one gets a bad rap, although I'm willing to let most of its offenses slide until we get to the climax... FUCKING SPACE MARINES! HAVING A LASER BATTLE! IN SPACE! The pigeon doing a quadruple take is a bit much. And yeah, this is just The Spy Who Loved Me set in space. But it's all good fun, and it's Bernard Lee's last appearance as M, so it'll always have a place in my heart just for that reason.

For Your Eyes Only — A
Nice, taut Cold War thriller in the vein of From Russia With Love. Moore proves he can still deliver despite wrinkles, no gadgets, and a P.O.S. Citroën. The oogie scenes between Rog and Lynn-Holly Johnson are perhaps the first sign that he's getting too old for this shit. Topol is a lot of fun, and the scene between Bond and Gogol — "That's detente, comrade!" — is a great resolution. Perhaps could have done without the antics of Margaret and Denis Thatcher at the end, but hey. And while Bill Conti's score hasn't aged well, it's at least not as obnoxious as Hamlisch's.

Octopussy — C+
God, Roger is getting too old for this shit. At least they paired him up with a Bond Girl closer to his age. He and Maud Adams had great chemistry here. Sadly, despite the great train sequence, in my mind it always pales in comparison to the horror that is Bond in a FUCKING CLOWN SUIT.

A View to a Kill — D+
Roger is way too old for this shit. And so is Lois Maxwell. Their day at Ascot is embarrassing at best. Tanya Roberts can't act her way out of a wet paper bag. Christopher Walken is slightly amusing, but in general the film is very meh. A sad ending to Moore's tenure, but IMO only the middle three are worth repeat viewings.

 

[Starkers]

Mankiewicz didn't write the Richard Lester portions of Superman II, which the redneck sheriff scenes are part of.

Actually, check the IMDB entry re the writing of the movie. Mankiewicz has an uncredited involvement. Just the same as he did with the first one. I find it hard to believe that the use of such a similar character could be down to anyone other than him.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081573/fullcredits#writers

Like cardinal biggles said, Mankiewicz is listed as an uncredited rewriter for the portions of the film that Richard Donner shot. He refused to have anything to do with the film after Richard Donner was fired. Although, I suppose it's possible that the redneck sheriff character was present in Mankiewicz's draft but just hadn't been shot yet before Richard Lester took over as director. It's certainly in keeping with some of the goofiness in the 1st Superman movie. (Remember Otis?)

Adding to the weirdness is the fact that Guy Hamilton, the director of the 2 007 movies in question was also the original choice to direct the 1st 2 Superman movies. He had to quit when the production was moved from Italy to England because he's a tax exile who can only spend 30 days per year in England.

It's what Bond does, and he'll outlive Bourne the same way he outlived Harry Callaghan, because the franchise's great strength is the ability to change with the times. Bond is all dark and gritty now, but it wouldn't surprise me if by 2013 we're back to bad puns and a more lighthearted 007.

I hope so. I'm waiting for the movie pendulum to swing the other way, away from dark & gritty. In addition to the James Bond movies having become so damn dark & depressing, I also find myself missing Tim Burton's very stylized take on the Batman movies.

I think it will, I think dark and gritty will start to fade away soon...not that I think its especially bad, but it's the need to make everything dark and gritty, some thinks need to remain light hearted, personally I still think QoS was funnier and more Bondian than CR, but I think I'm in a minority I do think Craig's next film will be more along the lines of a classic Bond film, albeit the more realistic end of the spectrum (More OHMSS/From Russia With Love/The Living Daylights) than Moonraker/DAD! I think Craig can do humour very well, it's just a differentm drier kind of humour than Moore/Brosnan could get away with.

 

[RJDiogenes]

but if that wasn't embarrassing enough, there's all the shit with friggin' Tattoo. I half expected him to shout "De plane, boss, de plane!" when Bond landed at Scaramanga's island.

Except that Golden Gun predated Fantasy Island by about three years. I've always been amused by how it anticipated-- or influenced-- some elements of the show.

 

[RandyS]

Which movie was it where RM is supposed to fight all these Karate Guys, and when one of them bows he kicks him in the face? That always cracked me up.

That's The Man With the Golden Gun. I thought it was funny too, since Bond was saved by that guys two teenage daughters.

Great scene in a great movie.

Stupid opening credit song though.

 

[RandyS]

I still haven't seen Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut, but I believe they cut all the Clifton James material, which would either support the idea that it was added after Donner was fired and Mankiewicz quit, or else it's material that Mankiewicz wrote, but Donner wouldn't have used, or would have filmed so differently from Lester that Lester's version was incompatible with the new cut of Superman II.

They cut some of it, yes, but not all of it.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I have the Donner cut in the house and have watched it but I can't honestly remember if the scene is in it or not. But it is to be remembered that Donner didn't actually direct the, er, Donner cut. It's more of a tribute to him. So JClifton ames' presence or absence doesn't really resolve the issue satisfactorily anyway.

 

[jkladis]

I grew up with Roger Moore as new Bond was being made. I enjoyed him even though I later appreciated the original Connery. A greater acknowledgment for Moonraker these days is most welcoming. It always gets such a bad rap.

A View to a Kill is a good production with a dull story. Walken was overqualified for the role which is why he was a bad fit. Oh, the part where Bond has sex with a black dude makes me cringe.

Octopussy, to borrow another member's analysis, was the film that ended three times before it was over.


1. The Spy Who Loved Me
2. Moonraker
3. For Your Eyes Only
4. Live and Let Die
5. The Man with the Golden Gun
6. A View to a Kill
7. Octopussy

 

[RandyS]

I grew up with Roger Moore as new Bond was being made. I enjoyed him even though I later appreciated the original Connery. A greater acknowledgment for Moonraker these days is most welcoming. It always gets such a bad rap.

I'm glad to see sombody else loves Moonraker too.

I also grew up in the Roger Moore era, and didn't even know about Sean Connery until 1983. My mom and I went to see Bond in the theater every time one came out, and it was usually Moore. But then, in 1983, shortly after we had seen Octopussy, my mom told me that another Bond movie called Never Say Never again was out. Naturally we went. In the car on the way home, I asked my mom "where was Roger Moore?". She laughed and told me all about the Connery films that we made before I was born (I was actually 1 when Diamonds Are Forever came out). Much to her delight I said I wanted to see them, an we rented, and had a Bond marathon one weekend and I got to see everything from Dr. No to The Man With the Golden Gun for the first time. The Spy Who Loved Me was the first one I'd seen at the theater.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I never understood why there was such overall hate for Moonraker, but then I've always had a higher-than-average tolerance for camp and kitsch.

 

[KB24]

I hate Moonraker and I'm surprised there's an even amount of love this thread! Go fig.

 

[Broccoli]

I think the recent Blu-Ray release of the movie has allowed fans to give it more of a positive review.

 

[Starkers]

Moonraker rocks!

 

[siskokid888]

The Spy Who Loved Me and For Your Eyes Only are the best Moore as Bond flicks, and they still rank pretty low on the scale. TSWLM was the least silly, and FYEO was pretty straight forward, until the stupid bit at the end. Live and Let Die was also ok. The rest of Moore's canon is silly and outlandish to a fault, the lowest being Moonraker.