Gotta have a tailpipe?

[sonak]

I thought all the sudden out-of-nowhere racism of the Enterprise crew to be wildly out of character and simply put in their mouths so the movie could get its message across. It's actually pretty awkward.

I don't. They were having the status quo that they lived with their whole lives challenged.

um, right but you don't have to conflate political disagreements into racism toward a group. The fact that some Enterprise officers may have been wary of a too-generous peace settlement with the Klingons would have nothing to do with their expression of racism TOWARD Klingons as such.

for example, a Cold War "hardliner" didn't necessarily have to be racist against Russians just because they might not have trusted Soviet leadership.


And further, we had heard little of these sentiments out of the crew before. Then, because the movie wanted to make a point about prejudice, practically every Enterprise crewmember is suddenly spouting racist remarks left and right.

 

[BillJ]

I thought all the sudden out-of-nowhere racism of the Enterprise crew to be wildly out of character and simply put in their mouths so the movie could get its message across. It's actually pretty awkward.

I don't. They were having the status quo that they lived with their whole lives challenged.

um, right but you don't have to conflate political disagreements into racism toward a group. The fact that some Enterprise officers may have been wary of a too-generous peace settlement with the Klingons would have nothing to do with their expression of racism TOWARD Klingons as such.

for example, a Cold War "hardliner" didn't necessarily have to be racist against Russians just because they might not have trusted Soviet leadership.


And further, we had heard little of these sentiments out of the crew before. Then, because the movie wanted to make a point about prejudice, practically every Enterprise crewmember is suddenly spouting racist remarks left and right.

People will see racism in things if they want to see it... whether it is truly there or not. The Enterprise crew were seeing a societal about face in regards to the Klingons and that caused all those feelings they've had through the years to bubble to the surface all at once. This movie actually shows real people who have been subjected to the Federation's own propaganda spin on the Klingons for most of their lives.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Then, because the movie wanted to make a point about prejudice, practically every Enterprise crewmember is suddenly spouting racist remarks left and right.

A little example of Trek "subtlety," in the tradition of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The TOS crew seemed comfortable with casual racism. See Spock's comments about humans and McCoy's towards Vulcans.

The Entity in "Day of the Dove" brought the crews feeling about the Klingons to the surface ( and visa versa). I dont think it created those feelings out of thin air.

 

[scotpens]

Anyone who thinks it's racist is a closet racist trying too hard to prove they aren't racist by saying it's racist.

The weird thing is, I actually understood that!

 

[Robert D. Robot]

I know there is an interview or discussion that Nichelle stated that she thought that the part of saying that was stereotypical...yet I can't find it on the net. I agreed with her at the time I read it.

You say that you agreed with her that the line was racist. Can you please explain WHY you feel it's racist? No one here can understand how the line could be.

Yeah- I don't want to appear to be piling on anyone here, but I sure would love to have this explained, if true. I am intrigued if tailpipe actually does somehow has racist implacations (which I am very seriously doubting). I enjoy learning the origin of words and phrases, but I just do not see any connection here.

On the other hand, for fun just go and look up the origin of the word "porcelain"!...

 

[Cyke101]

One might argue that one of the differences between a good actor and a great actor is the ability to credibly deliver lines that one finds personally distasteful, understanding that they serve the interests of the larger story and aren't meant to be taken at face value.

It's the whole "nigger Jim" argument all over again.

The difference being, though, is that Nichols and Peters were active in Hollywood when racial epithets and attacks and threats were much more common, so it's going to strike a nerve with them more than we might possibly know. I'm not going to say that racism is gone, but their era was much different than what we face today. For one thing, the discussion of race back then wasn't as nuanced as it is today, but on the other hand, they had to face those difficulties in order for the discussion to advance in the first place. If STVI is reframed into the sense of the 50s and 60s, suddenly the oppressed are the oppressors, and that in itself isn't a very comfortable change to assume no matter what creative work it's in, especially if one is aware that one is undergoing that change. An actor is supposed to draw upon what they know, but if all they know is one side of a painful issue, it could also be just as painful, if not moreso, to play the other side.

Essentially, I'd cut them some slack, but we also have a sense of cultural hindsight vision going on if we can't sympathize with their past. Besides, 1 TV show and 6 movies in, the production crew wasn't going to recast Uhura, and scoring Brock Peters for a Trek role was still something of a coup. Having Peters play a racist-villainous role, as others here have said, also added a great touch of dramatic, metatextual irony. Peters delivered with hesitation (but still delivered nonetheless), and the producers sidestepped the issue with Nichols. In both cases, things more or less still worked out for the film.

 

[scotpens]

. . . On the other hand, for fun just go and look up the origin of the word "porcelain"!...

porcelain 1530s, from M.Fr. porcelaine, from It. porcellana "porcelain" (13c.), lit. "cowrie shell," the chinaware so called from resemblance to the shiny surface of the shells. The shell's name in Italian is from porcella "young sow," fem. of L. porcellus "young pig," dim. of porculus "piglet," dim. of porcus "pig."

So . . . ? Am I missing something here?

 

[-Brett-]

for example, a Cold War "hardliner" didn't necessarily have to be racist against Russians just because they might not have trusted Soviet leadership.

Except Russian isn't a race.

The Klingon Empire and the Klingon species are virtually inseparable. If there are any Klingons that live outside of the Empire, we didn't hear about them. If there are any non-Klingons that joined up with the Empire, we didn't hear about them either. All Klingons are part of the Empire and all citizens of the Empire are Klingons.

It's understandable that the characters would conflate the two.

 

[sonak]

for example, a Cold War "hardliner" didn't necessarily have to be racist against Russians just because they might not have trusted Soviet leadership.

Except Russian isn't a race.

The Klingon Empire and the Klingon species are virtually inseparable. If there are any Klingons that live outside of the Empire, we didn't hear about them. If there are any non-Klingons that joined up with the Empire, we didn't hear about them either. All Klingons are part of the Empire and all citizens of the Empire are Klingons.

It's understandable that the characters would conflate the two.

Please. "Racism" no more has to refer to race than "homophobes" literally have to be afraid of gays, or anti-semites have to literally oppose "semites."

And no, it's not "understandable" to conflate the two. Political decisions made by leadership don't necessarily reflect the views of members of a community, nation, empire, etc. The crew could have been skeptical of decisions by the leadership of the Klingon Empire without being literally racist toward Klingons.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

. . . On the other hand, for fun just go and look up the origin of the word "porcelain"!...

porcelain 1530s, from M.Fr. porcelaine, from It. porcellana "porcelain" (13c.), lit. "cowrie shell," the chinaware so called from resemblance to the shiny surface of the shells. The shell's name in Italian is from porcella "young sow," fem. of L. porcellus "young pig," dim. of porculus "piglet," dim. of porcus "pig."

So . . . ? Am I missing something here?

What is missing here is the link between "young pig" and "cowrie shell".

The Medieval Italian word porcello (literally ‘little pig’ ), was also street slang for vulva dating back to Imperial Rome. Since the lower surface of the cowrie shell apparently resembled a woman’s vulva to the eyes of some observers, it acquired the name porcellana. The chinaware eventually ended up being called porcelain because its shiny surface resembles the shiny surface of the cowrie shell.

This is a pretty interesting, winding journey to the name porcelain.

And no- I wasn't intentionally looking up "dirty words"! I had just worked my way up to the letter "P" in my dictionary of word origins!

 

[Phantassm]

The hell? How is "tailpipe" racist?

Thirded!

WTF? I'm black and it isn't racist at all. She was simply referring to the fact that it would emit vapors of some kind. Jesus!

 

[scotpens]

Please. "Racism" no more has to refer to race than "homophobes" literally have to be afraid of gays, or anti-semites have to literally oppose "semites."

Uh, racism does refer to race.

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

The term “anti-Semite” dates from the late 19th century, Semite literally meaning a descendant of the biblical Shem. It’s an inaccurate term, but everyone knows it doesn’t mean anti-Arab.

As for “homophobia,” it’s an unfortunate neologism. If someone is homophobic, it should mean he’s afraid of people who are exactly like himself!

 

[Pauln6]

I never understood any racist double entendre. The fact that so may of us didn't get it as such can only be a good sign. When a phrase loses its racist meaning it can just be reintegrated into our language as a word or phrase.

On a different point, since ships can only change direction and stop/start by emitting energy, I would have thought that a tracker torpedo would be standard issue for dealing with cloaked ships by now.

 

[Mytran]

Cloaked ships are not normally within weapons range (since they can't fire whilst cloaked). They'd be just crusing along, somewhere. By the time you realise they're in range (i.e. when they de-cloak) it'd be too late.

 

[Pauln6]

Cloaked ships are not normally within weapons range (since they can't fire whilst cloaked). They'd be just crusing along, somewhere. By the time you realise they're in range (i.e. when they de-cloak) it'd be too late.

Ah yeah, if you set speed and direction while out of range you could just cruise in on a direct course. The actions of the target ship could affect that I suppose and you would need somebody pretty hot on sensors to locate the energy discharge when the change in speed or direction is implemented.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

The term “anti-Semite” dates from the late 19th century, Semite literally meaning a descendant of the biblical Shem. It’s an inaccurate term, but everyone knows it doesn’t mean anti-Arab.

The phrase "Anti-Semitism" was made popular by Wilhelm Marr, who was trying to come up with a term that sounded more "scientific" and civilized than Judenhass (Jew Hatred) to make hating Jews sound more reasoned than irrational.

 

[Devon]

I'm trying to think of a film in which they said "Bunch of tailpipes!"

 

[CoveTom]

Well, apparently the OP has abandoned this thread without providing any explanation as to how the remark could be racist. That makes me suspect that perhaps he wasn't serious to begin with.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

The fact that so may of us didn't get it as such can only be a good sign. When a phrase loses its racist meaning it can just be reintegrated into our language as a word or phrase.

Except that this phrase never had any racist meaning in the first place. Is the fact that, according to our poll, three people found racism where none even exists anything to celebrate?