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Gotham - Season 1

The "Year Zero" storyline is actually pretty well done. At one point, the Riddler takes the entire city hostage and refuses to release it until someone asks him a riddle even he can't answer.

I could see them doing something like that on GOTHAM.

That doesn't sound out of line with the way he's characterized in the games of the Arkham franchise. With so many media I wonder how people have come to know Batman lore: cartoons, movies, tv, games, comics, etc.. While the comics are probably seen as the most definitive there are a lot of ways people could have come to know Batman.
 
That has been true for a long time now. The number of people who read the actual comic books is very, very small compared to those seeing the same characters in other media.

Which is why its odd to me that DC and Marvel use recent reboots and story lines to be adapted into tv shows and movies. Presumably because they are "successful" in the comics. We are talking about the lowest comic readership in the history of the business. So is that representative of anything? Other than pleasing a small niche. It would be nice if they explored their whole history for ideas, back when the readership numbers mattered.
 
That has been true for a long time now. The number of people who read the actual comic books is very, very small compared to those seeing the same characters in other media.

Yep. Which is why, throughout history, comics have incorporated characters and ideas created for their mass-media adaptations. Superman comics took the Daily Planet from the newspaper comic strip and Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, and kryptonite from radio, and allegedly Superman's ability to fly from the theatrical animated shorts, though I think he was flying on radio before that (or jumping in a way treated indistinguishably from flight). Batman comics adopted Mr. Freeze from the Adam West series (before then he'd been a single-use villain named Mr. Zero) and changed Catwoman's look to resemble the TV version; then a generation later they revamped Gotham City to look like it did in the Tim Burton movies, then adopted Harley Quinn, Renee Montoya, the Paul Dini version of Mr. Freeze, and Lock-Up from B:TAS. The comics' Incredible Hulk spent a few years as a lonely wanderer when the Bill Bixby TV series was on the air. The current Marvel comics have adopted a black Nick Fury, Agent Coulson, and the Agents of SHIELD characters into the comics. And the Green Arrow comics have added John Diggle from the Arrow TV series and revamped the pre-existing Felicity Smoak character into a closer parallel for the TV version.


Which is why its odd to me that DC and Marvel use recent reboots and story lines to be adapted into tv shows and movies. Presumably because they are "successful" in the comics. We are talking about the lowest comic readership in the history of the business. So is that representative of anything? Other than pleasing a small niche. It would be nice if they explored their whole history for ideas, back when the readership numbers mattered.
I don't think the readership figures of comics were ever large enough to make much difference by TV and movie audience standards, except maybe decades ago. And the shows and films do draw on older as well as newer ideas; for instance, the upcoming Daredevil series looks like it'll be drawing far more on the Frank Miller era than the current Mark Waid era. And Batman v Superman is drawing heavily (far too heavily, I feel) on The Dark Knight Returns, which came out nearly 30 years ago.

I think the use of current ideas has a lot to do with the fact that the comics creators themselves have taken more direct charge of their screen adaptations (whereas a lot of screenwriters for comics projects have moved into comics writing in turn). So both the comics and the films/shows are drawing on the same pool of ideas from many of the same people.
 
That has been true for a long time now. The number of people who read the actual comic books is very, very small compared to those seeing the same characters in other media.

Which is why its odd to me that DC and Marvel use recent reboots and story lines to be adapted into tv shows and movies. Presumably because they are "successful" in the comics. We are talking about the lowest comic readership in the history of the business. So is that representative of anything? Other than pleasing a small niche. It would be nice if they explored their whole history for ideas, back when the readership numbers mattered.

I think it has less to do with pleasing the current readership than with the fact that those are the newest and most up-to-date approaches to the characters--which is presumably what you'd want to do in the movies anyway.

It's more like the new movies and the new comics are coming from the same place: How do you make these characters feel fresh and contemporary in 2015? How have audience tastes and expectations changed over the years--both in comics and onscreen?

So GOTHAM is darker and more serialized than, say, the 1960s BATMAN show not because they're copying the modern comics, but because that's what 21st century TV dramas are like. And the comics are reflecting the same trends, not inspiring them.
 
^Although Stan Lee was pioneering semi-episodic, semi-serialized adventure storytelling decades before prime-time TV embraced it.
 
And the shows and films do draw on older as well as newer ideas; for instance, the upcoming Daredevil series looks like it'll be drawing far more on the Frank Miller era than the current Mark Waid era. And Batman v Superman is drawing heavily (far too heavily, I feel) on The Dark Knight Returns, which came out nearly 30 years ago.

Heck, Miller's run on DAREDEVIL was more than twenty years old when the 2003 DAREDEVIL movie drew heavily from it. As I was reminded when I visited Hell's Kitchen to do research for the novelization.

I realized quickly that the gentrified neighborhood I was exploring bore little resemblance to the one described in the movie script, which was based on comics first published in the early eighties. In the end, I just forgot about reality and described the movie version in the book . . . .
 
At A con afterparty, I saw Grant Morrison hit on a friend of mine by (in part) telling her to read Daredevil Born Again.

...

In all fairness to the current gentrification, Nuke did knock down a lot of buildings.
 
That has been true for a long time now. The number of people who read the actual comic books is very, very small compared to those seeing the same characters in other media.

Which is why its odd to me that DC and Marvel use recent reboots and story lines to be adapted into tv shows and movies. Presumably because they are "successful" in the comics. We are talking about the lowest comic readership in the history of the business. So is that representative of anything? Other than pleasing a small niche. It would be nice if they explored their whole history for ideas, back when the readership numbers mattered.

I think it has less to do with pleasing the current readership than with the fact that those are the newest and most up-to-date approaches to the characters--which is presumably what you'd want to do in the movies anyway.

It's more like the new movies and the new comics are coming from the same place: How do you make these characters feel fresh and contemporary in 2015? How have audience tastes and expectations changed over the years--both in comics and onscreen?

So GOTHAM is darker and more serialized than, say, the 1960s BATMAN show not because they're copying the modern comics, but because that's what 21st century TV dramas are like. And the comics are reflecting the same trends, not inspiring them.
It also raises awareness of the current comics, and hopefully gets people to read them and get hooked, rather than just a handful of decades old stories.
 
Penguin meets Riddler! That was kind of fun.

I'm a bit disappointed that the renamed club isn't the Iceberg Lounge. But I guess that's still in the future.

I wonder who it is that took Fish.
 
Glad to see I'm not the only one.
I did get a kick out of Johnathan Crane and his scarecrow.
I liked when Alfred showed up out with Bruce. They really are developing an interesting relationship.
Very curious to see where they are going with Fish."Doc" actually lasted longer than I expected once she found out he was in charge.
 
This was a good episode. The pacing's picked up, and they managed to pack in several story lines. Next week we get to see the scenes they filmed at the new World Trade Center.
 
Is it still the New York World Trade Centre, or is it the Gotham World Trade Centre, and if so was the World Trade Centre always in Gotham, and has it been 911ed or will it be 911ed when 911 happens because this is the past?

I'm overreading?

It's just an undefined prop?

It's just an undefined prop.
 
We'll probably never see any exteriors of the WTC. I figure in-story that they'll have some gleaming high-rise with WAYNE ENTERPRISES written on the exterior and then cut to the interiors shot at the new WTC.

I mean, if anybody can afford their own building, it's Wayne Ent.

By the way, have they shown a building marked as Wayne Ent on Gotham yet?
 
I love this show... stellar production values, great acting and chemistry, tightrope walking story lines, unique and believable (enough) ambiance, and ... well, (sometimes very) good writing.

Wonder what happened to Fish's other white daddy figure?
 
Wonder what happened to Fish's other white daddy figure?

Who do you mean? I don't think anyone on this show is a "daddy figure" to her. Maybe Falcone sees himself that way to an extent, but she sees him more as a rival. The only character who has any kind of familial closeness with her is Butch Gilzean, but he's hardly a father figure, more a deeply loyal lieutenant. (And his portrayer, Drew Powell, is several years younger than Jada Pinkett-Smith.) Fish herself is the parental figure, the self-styled "mother" of her gang.
 
They appear to be saying that next week's episode will introduce Joker, do we think this is really what's going to happen or is it just a fake out? I'm thinking fake out. I know Bruno Heller said they moved up their plans for the man who laughs, but it seems kind of early for that.
 
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