Gotham - Season 1

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Agent Richard07, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    For gritty violence and exaggerated characters, how about Sin City? I think the two can coexist, in fact it might just give the series its own voice and not make it overly beholden to canon...
     
  2. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "WHAT'S ALTRUISM?!" :lol:
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, I guess there's precedent in things like the cinematic RoboCop. But it's not just the fact that the violence exists, it's the way the show treats it. It can't seem to make up its mind whether it's playing things dead serious or broad and fanciful.

    And as I said, if they wanted a broad, exaggerated world of supercrime, why base the show around ordinary cops instead of superheroes? There just seems to be a mismatch between the premise and the approach.


    That depends. If you mean Frank Miller Batman as in The Dark Knight Returns and Year One, then I don't see it, since those were pretty much deconstructions and repudiations of the campier side of DC comics in the past. If you mean Frank Miller Batman as in The Dark Knight Strikes Again or All-Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder... well, the show is nowhere near those levels of insanity, ineptness, or misogyny, and hopefully never will be.



    Leslie Thompkins, created by Denny O'Neill in the same story that introduced Crime Alley. She was also featured in Batman: TAS. And I think I read somewhere that she may appear in Gotham.
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have to admit, I was a little surprised the see the show going as comic booky as it did with the Viper stuff. I know up to this point, it's been OTT, but this one took it a lot farther than I expected. I still enjoyed it though.
    The stuff with Penguin was the standout part of the episode, like it has pretty much all along. I have to admit, I was kind of surprised that he actually told Maroni the truth.
     
  5. Timby

    Timby HAVE YOU HEARD THE WORDS OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR Administrator

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    Yes, Danny Cannon has confirmed that Thompkins will be showing up this season, though her casting has not been announced as of yet.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Love interest for Alfred?
     
  7. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    It's what SHIELD does. I wouldn't draw too close a comparison between the two, but on this point they are working the same street.
     
  8. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    In comics there are also other examples of this kind of series. There's of course "Powers" by Brian Bendis and Michael Avon Oeming, and of course "Gotham Central", which I think has been cited as an inspiration for the TV show.
     
  9. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Naturally they'll hate each to start with
     
  10. Servo

    Servo Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm starting to really enjoy this show, and I think the contrasting tones is a big part of why.
     
  11. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Morena Baccarin Joins ‘Gotham’ Cast

     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Wow, I never would've associated Baccarin with Leslie Thompkins, since I'm used to thinking of the latter as an elderly woman. But then, she was supposed to be younger when the Wayne murders happened, of course.

    It kinda takes something away from the character if she wasn't there to comfort Bruce right after the murder, though. But if she moves into a surrogate-mother role for Bruce, that would make up for it. Leslie's role in Bruce's upbringing has always been kind of nebulous, it seems to me. Could be interesting to see it fleshed out.
     
  13. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I can already see Alfred and Leslie hooking up...
     
  14. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Honestly, I wish people would just forget about Frank Miller and his take on Batman. He's largely responsible for the "ruthless vigilante" take on the character as opposed to the cunning master-detective who resorts to violence only when he really has to and pulls it off with skill and technique rather than pummeling people into a coma.

    Anyway, I agree, as I've been saying the show has tonal problems. And while it's certainly not impossible to have a bit of a campy show with supernatural elements and also have some gritty procedural in it, that's a delicate balance you have to find. This show isn't quite finding it.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was showing Dark Knight Returns the Movie to a couple of 11 (My niece and Nephew) year olds PRAYING that their parents didn't walk into the lounge and realize that this movie was entirely unsuitable.
     
  16. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've heard rumors Thompkins becomes a romantic interest for Gordon. Given her age, it makes sense. The description says she works for Arkham and becomes an ally of Gordon, so who knows.

    As for the show itself, it feels incredibly bipolar. For example, this week's episode "Viper" had an absolutely atrocious main plot (with some godawful CGI) that felt like it could have come out of the first season of Smallville. At the same time, there are some sub-plots that are really strong - such as the budding relationship between young Bruce and Alfred (where I can totally see this version of Alfred eventually supporting Bruce's endeavors as Batman). The gang war sub-plot is also promising. The scene with Gordon, Cobblepot and Maroni was probably the best scene in the episode. I am really enjoying the ramifications of Gordon allowing Cobblepot to live and I have a feeling it will continue to bite Gordon in the ass as the season progresses. I'm also digging what Mooney is planning for Falcone.

    I just wish I didn't hate 50% of the episode. The main plots are just really cartoonish, over-the-top and downright terrible but the sub-plots are often intriguing and the one thing keeping me still interested, besides the good acting and set design. I just wish the writing and tone was more consistent. Not as bad as "The Balloonman", but close.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm not sure the responsibility lies with Miller so much as with later creators who missed the point of what he was trying to do. The Dark Knight Returns was meant to be an alternate future that exaggerated everything to a satirically dystopian extreme, with the aged Bruce/Batman being far more damaged, unstable, and violent than he ever was in his prime. It was never meant to be a template for a typical Batman story, but a whole generation of Batman writers (including, unfortunately, the makers of the upcoming Batman/Superman movie) have approached it as exactly that.
     
  18. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I prefer the Dark Night Detective angle too (no, Google, there is no 'K' in that phrase!). Hopefully Goyer has figured out that Batman trying to out-macho Supes would look ridiculous, and outsmarting him is the way to go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  19. dragunzng

    dragunzng Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's been said before, but perhaps the best thing about this show is the absolutely stunning production design. Tonally it still seems to be a little all over the place, but it appears to be finding its footing. Donal Logue has really made Bullock an interesting character, probably the most interesting on the show.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's the pickles.

    20 years of pickles turns Bullock into a fatass and 20 years of no pickles turns Gordon into a scarecrow.

    You're welcome.