Gorn

[Tallguy]

I do not care what the Gorn look like anymore than I care that Number One and Chapel do not look like the same person.

I DO care that the Enterprise crew encountered the Gorn in the same part of space that they had always encountered them in, acting the way they had acted previously

Spoiler

years after they had been put to sleep

and take essentially no notice of other than the immediate predicament.

Babbling about backstory was kind of a go to move for these people.

This was an enemy so overpowering that they brushed Spock stealing the Enterprise under the rug rather than hampering their ability to fight them.

If Kirk was so perplexed at the visual discrepancy (which everything else would lead me to believe that there isn't one) why would he have not asked his Gorn opponent? "Hey, they say you're a Gorn. Are you the same Gorns that used to blow up Federation spaceships about five in years ago?"

 

[fireproof78]

DO care that the Enterprise crew encountered the Gorn in the same part of space that they had always encountered them in, acting the way they had acted previously

Yup. That stands out.

 

[Pauln6]

OK, I realise this is too simple, buuuuut, why does everyone assume that the only time travellers who exist are a) from the Federation and b) main characters that we see on screen?

If you are one of those people who insists that time is over written because that's what we see on screen, then this is your explanation. None of this 'alternate timeline' nonsense is needed.

It's so easy to time travel, thousands of time travellers could be popping into past time zones every second without changing anything major but changes ripple forward. The butterfly effect could be responsible for every single change we see, right down Chekov and Chapel's different wigs.

By the time the opening credits start, a thousand different changes to the timeline may have bedded in. Just because what we see on screen hasn't changed can still mean that somewhere, Roger Korby now has an Irish accent.

To summarise, instead of a wizard did it, our response to all alterations and canon violations must be that a time traveller did it. Don't blame me for this travesty. I subscribe to Many Worlds theory.

 

[JLBTucker]

I do not like how the Gorn are portrayed. They are more like the Xenomorphs or a living plague than the Gorn.

 

[Dar70]

So, how is it that there are so many encounters with the Gorn in this series but in TOS, the Gorn and their territory was completely unknown?

There is no rational explanation except it was a clear and complete Retcon. Any explanation people try to come up with is forced and ridiculous.

 

[Dar70]

Oh, I am for completely decanonizing TOS. It really is nothing like any of its offspring.

Baloney....it's exactly like it's offspring. Maybe not in production values but other than that the premise is the same. I'm tired of everyone bad mouthing TOS to try to validate their favorite show.

 

[BillJ]

Baloney....it's exactly like it's offspring. Maybe not in production values but other than that the premise is the same. I'm tired of everyone bad mouthing TOS to try to validate their favorite show.

The original Star Trek is, by far, my favorite Trek show.

 

[fireproof78]

The original Star Trek is, by far, my favorite Trek show.

Yes, same here. But it feels very disconnected from TNG forward, save for one off episode for tie ins.

TOS as a series stands apart because the world presented feels very different to the rest, and I include the TOS films in this.

There is no rational explanation except it was a clear and complete Retcon. Any explanation people try to come up with is forced and ridiculous.

Same with the Imperial Klingons, Human Klingon fusion and Romulan Klingon fusion as an attempt to explain make up differences.

Or various other hand waves fans try to come up with. But that's what fans do.

 

[Dar70]

The original Star Trek is, by far, my favorite Trek show.

Well I'm happy to hear at least that.

 

[Dar70]

Yes, same here. But it feels very disconnected from TNG forward, save for one off episode for tie ins.

TOS as a series stands apart because the world presented feels very different to the rest, and I include the TOS films in this.


Same with the Imperial Klingons, Human Klingon fusion and Romulan Klingon fusion as an attempt to explain make up differences.

Or various other hand waves fans try to come up with. But that's what fans do.

I don't think so.. production value wise yes. But I think generally TOS to ENT is pretty decent overall Story wise. Yes the cheap sets to the more detailed set of the films and then series is a bit odd but other than that its generally good. If we have to de-canonized TOS we may as well do the same with TNG because it's production lineage don't line up with SNW at all. And it's just as disconnected with current stuff. The SNW bridge for example looks way more advanced. They went from a big window screen in SNW to a screeen in TNG back to a window screen in Picard. Also all the little mechanic robots....would have been handy during the borg attack on the D....but for some reason they got rid of the robots after SNW and they came back in Picard Season 3.

 

[BillJ]

Well I'm happy to hear at least that.

If they decoupled TOS from the rest of it, I seriously wouldn't pay attention to the new stuff at all. That is probably why they will never overtly decanonize TOS. People would probably abandon ship in droves.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think so.. production value wise yes. But I think generally TOS to ENT is pretty decent overall Story wise. Yes the cheap sets to the more detailed set of the films and then series is a bit odd but other than that its generally good. If we have to de-canonized TOS we may as well do the same with TNG because it's production lineage don't line up with SNW at all. And it's just as disconnected with current stuff. The SNW bridge for example looks way more advanced. They went from a big window screen in SNW to a screeen in TNG back to a window screen in Picard. Also all the little mechanic robots....would have been handy during the borg attack on the D....but for some reason they got rid of the robots after SNW and they came back in Picard Season 3.

I disagree on the flow. TOS has things a bit wilder and undefined out in space. The Federation feels more limited or a more recent development. The world has a much different feel to TNG.

The tech is the least of my concerns. The presentation of the world feels distinctly different to me. To my mind TMP to TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT make a good through line but TOS stands apart. ENT to Discovery and SNW is ok.

As always, mileage will vary.

 

[Yistaan]

I disagree on the flow. TOS has things a bit wilder and undefined out in space.

Yep. The Star Fleet Battles tabletop game and its associated lore (which diverged from Trek's years ago) reflects the "wild frontier" aspect of TOS more than SNW does.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Oh, I am for completely decanonizing TOS. It really is nothing like any of its offspring.

I think thats what a lot of people want. But its already been canonized in tng, ds9, and ent. There's really no need to do that. But I suspect if star trek year one gets into production you might very well get your wish.

 

[Pauln6]

I think thats what a lot of people want. But its already been canonized in tng, ds9, and ent. There's really no need to do that. But I suspect if star trek year one gets into production you might very well get your wish.

Maybe it will turn out to be a TV show directed by Ortegas' brother.

 

[Yistaan]

Maybe it will turn out to be a TV show directed by Ortegas' brother.

I heard that the Section 31 movie and Star Trek 5 were movies made by Beto Ortegas. His descendant Hacko Ortegas is responsible for Star Trek Nemesis. In fact that movie was so bad that the Romulan sun spontaneously went supernova a few years after it premiered and Data died just watching it.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Maybe it will turn out to be a TV show directed by Ortegas' brother.

Yeah. He wanted to tell the story of kirk and crew so he hired actors to play all the peoole hes met through uhura. He decided to go minimalist and make the sets nice but simple.

 

[Mudd]

The original Star Trek is, by far, my favorite Trek show.

Same. SNW is second for me, by many miles.

If they decoupled TOS from the rest of it, I seriously wouldn't pay attention to the new stuff at all. That is probably why they will never overtly decanonize TOS. People would probably abandon ship in droves.

Yep.

"Only older people like TOS / Young people care more about TNG and DS9" ignores the fact that the Trek audience skews older - Frakes acknowledged this again just the other day - and that if you subtract the geezers there aren't enough people interested to make continuing investment in Trek worthwhile.

Trek still generates enough income for PSKY that they keep searching for the magic bullet that will renew big interest in it. The STD/SFA initiative isn't doing it in terms of big numbers.

The new owners don't have a choice other than to push theatrical hard. They need a Gunn or Feige.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Same. SNW is second for me, by many miles.



Yep.

"Only older people like TOS / Young people care more about TNG and DS9" ignores the fact that the Trek audience skews older - Frakes acknowledged this again just the other day - and that if you subtract the geezers there aren't enough people interested to make continuing investment in Trek worthwhile.

Trek still generates enough income for PSKY that they keep searching for the magic bullet that will renew big interest in it. The STD/SFA initiative isn't doing it in terms of big numbers.

The new owners don't have a choice other than to push theatrical hard. They need a Gunn or Feige.

Yeah. TOS is still my favorite by far. Just goes to show great writing and a core group of actors really make a show shine not fancy sets or effects.

 

[fireproof78]

I think thats what a lot of people want. But its already been canonized in tng, ds9, and ent.

That's ok. Only DS9 got the feel right. ENT doesn't feel in line with TOS and was in the Mirror Universe so doesn't really count.

TOS stands by itself. It's hardly the same with any other production, even TMP from the same creator.