Gold uniforms
- Thread starter MagGu
- Start date
TOS
I remember the first time I read it from Theiss's own lips in an interview. On this BBS iirc. Then I opened my eyes to all the evidence.
The green of the normal command tunic really was not quite green though. Chartreuse ('60s, remember). Really kinda inbetween. But definitely not gold. Saw one with my own eyes under white museum caliber lighting (Detroit).
I really like the palate on the tv when Kirk is in his wraparound. I think it makes a prettier arrangement frankly, next to the blues of McCoy and Spock. Woulda looked nice if the main tunic had photographed true. Wonder why they didn't spot it and correct it in color tests?
But that's me. Even in S3 polyester, the main tunics photograph more gold than green usually. So gold it "really" is (was) (will be).
I talked to Theiss on two occasions in 1987. He used the terms "avocado" and "apple" in referring to two of the colors of the TOS uniforms, and I don't remember what he called the blue. I remember that he called the TNG blue "peacock."
Without that kind of rudeness we wouldn't know it was him.
Without that kind of rudeness we wouldn't know it was him.
^ Now, there's irony!
It could be....
------
Red - Command
Yellow - Operations, Engineering
Orange - Security
Purple - Helm
Blue - Science
Green - Medical
White - Intelligence
------
Red - Command
Yellow - Operations, Engineering
Orange - Security
Purple - Helm
Blue - Science
Green - Medical
White - Intelligence
To be sure, in the entire onscreen history of Star Trek, there has only ever been one reference to the uniform colors in any way being related to departments.
That's from "Trials and Tribble-ations":
Apart from this, we only have obscure indirect mentions of e.g. Eddington having to change shirt color (from gold) if he wants to be a starship CO, or O'Brien first wearing gold when he becomes the tactical officer of the Rutledge. Nobody ever identifies a character's department by his or her uniform color, and this probably isn't even a universal writer intention or a costuming dept intention outside the movies where complex color coding is shown.
Timo Saloniemi
That's from "Trials and Tribble-ations":
And even that doesn't establish why an operations officer like O'Brien is (pretending to be) would wear red. It just establishes he does. Might be operations crewmen would wear blue, while various other people would wear red for reasons unrelated to the reason O'Brien's alter ego wears that color. Remember that this is our only reference ever to a connection between departments and colors, so all sorts of weirdness is plausible and none can be considered more or less suspectible to Occam's razor.
Apart from this, we only have obscure indirect mentions of e.g. Eddington having to change shirt color (from gold) if he wants to be a starship CO, or O'Brien first wearing gold when he becomes the tactical officer of the Rutledge. Nobody ever identifies a character's department by his or her uniform color, and this probably isn't even a universal writer intention or a costuming dept intention outside the movies where complex color coding is shown.
Timo Saloniemi
When Bashir and O'Brien were captured one time the Jem'Hadar referenced that Bashir's colour had to do with the Sciences.
Oops, true enough.
...Actually, Bashir's color is not indicated to prove anything; the Jem'Hadar merely indicate that they somehow know Bashir is in sciences. It's O'Brien's gold that is explicitly said to identify him as having "specialty in security or engineering", with no mention of ops or other known "gold professions".
Timo Saloniemi
...Actually, Bashir's color is not indicated to prove anything; the Jem'Hadar merely indicate that they somehow know Bashir is in sciences. It's O'Brien's gold that is explicitly said to identify him as having "specialty in security or engineering", with no mention of ops or other known "gold professions".
Timo Saloniemi
I much prefer the brightly colored uniforms of TOS and TNG to the dingy, faux not-credibly military foolishness of the TWOK or First Contact-era outfits.
You don't really need dialogue to establish what the colours are for since it's pretty consistent throughout the TNG era. Blue for any and all sciences, and yellow for engineering, operations, and security. Red for Admirals, command, and the helm.
That Admiral in an yellow might have had that colour if he was like Barclay's commander in Voyager where he runs a department and is more hands on in it. Or he could be part of Starfleet security, but we've seen them in red before.
And yea not having the colours as an emphasis on the uniform is better like in ENT, the movie era, and FC uniforms.
That Admiral in an yellow might have had that colour if he was like Barclay's commander in Voyager where he runs a department and is more hands on in it. Or he could be part of Starfleet security, but we've seen them in red before.
And yea not having the colours as an emphasis on the uniform is better like in ENT, the movie era, and FC uniforms.
Starfleet is a military organisation though. Sure, the concept of military being conflict related might have been phased out in favour of exploration, diplomacy and scientific discovery but the organisation remains a military one.
I do agree though that there are some bland things about TWOK uniforms that I'm not keen on. I disliked the naval patches that admirals wear for example. I felt that was Nicholas Meyer fully giving into his naval obsession.
I actually prefer the ENT uniforms. They are more realistic and uni-sex in design. A female engineer CAN bend over and pick up a dropped tool in a jumpsuit. I heard cast members say some of the TOS uniforms were horrible. Especially the wrap around shirts with the zipper that goes under the arms. But then, ENT jumpsuits were hot. In the cold of space it is no problem keeping the environment cool. When filming the men frequently unzipped and went topless during breaks. I have not seen any pictures indicating that the women did the same thing.
So what? It's not like the TWOK or FC variants look a thing like plausible, modern military duty uniforms. TWOK-era uniforms look like costuming for a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta and FC-era look like drab jogging outfits.
As long as the aesthetic is supposed to be "futuristic" for a space opera like Trek it may as well be clever and colorful. I've seen a plausible (note, not "realistic," don't even try to talk about realistic in the context of space navies) visualization of future military space explorers - several, in fact, but the best is Avatar. If you want Star Trek to look military, go in that general direction, otherwise cut the corny faux-historical outfits with all the shiny doodads and lace.
Yeah, at least the ENT uniforms resembled some real-life referent; they look like clothes to work in. In terms of actual wearability...they're costumes, with all the shortcomings thereof.
I see your point. I personally think that the most realistic uniforms of any kind in Star Trek were the engineering suits first introduced in TMP. It puzzles me why specialist engineering wear was abandoned by TNG time.
The "plausible" military look is gonna get outdated real fast, though. After all, all "plausible" military looks in real history have turned into ridiculous relics soon enough. Essentially, anything is better than pretending that today's ideas on 2050s spacewear would be followed by a 2350s space military.
In terms of wearability, anything that works under studio lights is probably ideal for spaceflight, too: spacecraft will either real problems with thermal management (read: they'll be excessively hot, especially around any internal machinery of significance), in which case shorts and miniskirts are an excellent choice, or then they will have solved thermal management problems for good (read: moderate Californian climate all around), in which case shorts and miniskirts are an excellent choice. ("Miniskirt" here meaning the sort that Uhura wears, the one that doesn't reveal anything coveralls wouldn't reveal even if and when she bends over.)
Timo Saloniemi
In terms of wearability, anything that works under studio lights is probably ideal for spaceflight, too: spacecraft will either real problems with thermal management (read: they'll be excessively hot, especially around any internal machinery of significance), in which case shorts and miniskirts are an excellent choice, or then they will have solved thermal management problems for good (read: moderate Californian climate all around), in which case shorts and miniskirts are an excellent choice. ("Miniskirt" here meaning the sort that Uhura wears, the one that doesn't reveal anything coveralls wouldn't reveal even if and when she bends over.)
Timo Saloniemi
Thermal management would be tricky in space where almost absolute zero meets the ideal insulator of a vacuum. If a ship is too warm then sparse clothing would help the crew. If the idea is to keep the heat generated by the crew to a minimum then more clothing would help in that regard. The less clothing you wear the faster you lose body head and the more heat you have to generate to replace that lost heat. Because of that, the more heat you need to generate the more you have to eat, using more resources and creating more byproducts to be recycled.
Yes, tricky.
Yes, tricky.
It's probably largely a matter of expense - I mean for the production, not for Starfleet. I suppose they could have repurposed some of the movie wardrobe if there'd been a specific plot point that called for it, as Voyager eventually would with the EVA suits created for First Contact.
It's actually avocado, not gold.
