Given all the chaos, DIS could've been a lot worse.

[Vger23]

Accusations were verbal, not physical abuse. They were fired right around the time Episode 5 of Season 2 was finished. The show went on a production hiatus at that time. I suspect they retooled the season arc heavily, making the decision to cast Ethan Peck as Spock (Spock was originally supposed to only appear as a child) and creating the whole Control arc rather than the spiritual/woo aspect that Berg and Harbets were originally going for. Likely CBS pulped the original arc so they no longer got story credit/didn't have to pay them.

It's a shame, because the original arc of S2 was shaping up to be REALLY good and intriguing. As jarring and off-balance as S2's second half change and finale ended up being....it's still quite amazing they managed to pull it all together given that they essentially scrapped an entire story and pivoted to another.

As much as that weird mid-stream change hurt S2, I still find it to be a stronger, more entertaining offering than S3 or 4.

 

[DarKush]

That's not why the two extra episodes where added. Originally, the story of The Vulcan Hello and Battle of the Binary Stars were supposed to be shown as flashbacks spread out over the course of the first half of the season. However, they began realizing that inserting flashbacks into the episodes actually hurt the narrative flow of those episodes, and to make matters more difficult, CBS wanted Harry Mudd's Groundhog Day episode to be as standalone as possible and said it couldn't have any flashbacks there, meaning they had one less episode to try and squeeze the flashback scenes into. Finally it was decided, there's enough material here to fill two episodes, let's just tell this story as a two-part premiere instead, and thus two extra episodes were added to accommodate that.

That's interesting because I long thought the series should've just started with the third episode and threw the audience right into the mystery of Burnham on this prison ship before she's "rescued" by Discovery, and later on do like a mid-season hiatus "telefilm" combining The Vulcan Hello/Battle of the Binary Stars to explain her backstory more in detail. But the threading of flashbacks throughout would've been interesting, but I can see how that could've interrupted the flow if overused.

 

[plynch]

I liked the woo.
And really wonder what the red signals would have been instead of Burnham’S mom boppin around. They appear at the same time bajillions of LY apart, right?

 

[unimatrix7]

It's a shame, because the original arc of S2 was shaping up to be REALLY good and intriguing.

I thought the Red Angel mystery was so cool and interesting.

then it was Burnham’s mum in a time travel suit

 

[The Wormhole]

I liked the woo.
And really wonder what the red signals would have been instead of Burnham’S mom boppin around. They appear at the same time bajillions of LY apart, right?

Season 2 was originally conceived as "science vs faith" so presumably the original plan for the Red Angel might well have been something possibly supernatural in origin?

 

[Vger23]

Season 2 was originally conceived as "science vs faith" so presumably the original plan for the Red Angel might well have been something possibly supernatural in origin?

That was always my take...a great Trek story about the old Arthur C. Clarke tenet of "sufficiently advanced species / technology can seem like magic" was kind of what I anticipated...maybe even leaving it open to viewer interpretation....but alas we never got it, and I think that is a shame.

It actually makes me even angrier at the showrunner's behaviors...not only was it allegedly wildly inappropriate and unprofessional, but it may have robbed us of an amazing Trek arc.

 

[plynch]

Chris Pike was not averse to faith. I was looking forward to Hollywood giving me a plot where religion is not presented as stupid mumbo jumbo for the unenlightened. (Witness every time religion is presented in Berman Trek they do not translate it for us into English as they do everything else the whoevers speak. Riht away it’s light some candles and “Owa Tagu Siam.”

sorry rant

Religion is poetry and myth and speaks to deep things in us. Not everyone is a fundamentalist or literalist, no matter what faith.

rant done

I too mourn the arc that might have been. At least we’re getting SNW

 

[Vger23]

Chris Pike was not averse to faith. I was looking forward to Hollywood giving me a plot where religion is not presented as stupid mumbo jumbo for the unenlightened. (Witness every time religion is presented in Berman Trek they do not translate it for us into English as they do everything else the whoevers speak. Riht away it’s light some candles and “Owa Tagu Siam.”

sorry rant

Religion is poetry and myth and speaks to deep things in us. Not everyone is a fundamentalist or literalist, no matter what faith.

rant done

I too mourn the arc that might have been. At least we’re getting SNW

I agree. It's far too easy to dismiss faith, particularly in science fiction. I think having an intelligently crafted and open-minded approach to the "science and faith" topic is always welcome, particularly when it doesn't paint either as "the enemy." To me, that's always insulting and lazy, and I was looking forward to Trek doing a more thoughtful and less obvious exploration of it.

 

[eschaton]

I agree. It's far too easy to dismiss faith, particularly in science fiction. I think having an intelligently crafted and open-minded approach to the "science and faith" topic is always welcome, particularly when it doesn't paint either as "the enemy." To me, that's always insulting and lazy, and I was looking forward to Trek doing a more thoughtful and less obvious exploration of it.

We already got that though in Kira Nerys.

 

[Vger23]

We already got that though in Kira Nerys.

One of my favorite all-time characters

 

[plynch]

We already got that though in Kira Nerys.

So one and done and back to religion as silly mumbo jumbo?

Sorry, that overstates your position.

That was one thing that gave DS9 depth. That faith and tradition and belonging bring meaning whereas the materialistic- hyperindividualism we’re enduring now seems to be not such a good thing in many ways.

DS9 also showed extremism and literalism as being bad. The one with the castes and Kira as an artist, say.

I am actually a practicing Christian who does not believe it literally. It is poetry and tradition that grounds me in something bigger than the eternal present our corporations would like to keep me stupefied in, and it points me to the divine.

Happy Feast of the Annunciation, by the way. After an “announcement” from an angel, Mary said yes to bringing the divine into the world, in human form. Just as we are to be conduits of divine love and grace to others today.

Unless we are merely carbon based life forms and there is no divine, which I grant you is a possibility. But extending grace and compassion seems to be a pretty nice way of getting along.

ymmv

 

[fireproof78]

Happy Feast of the Annunciation, by the way. After an “announcement” from an angel, Mary said yes to bringing the divine into the world, in human form. Just as we are to be conduits of divine love and grace to others today.

I need to get a better calendar. Happy Feast of the Annunciation!

 

[James Cole]

Disclaimer: I couldn't take Discovery anymore and dipped out of the show at the end of season 2. I am re-watching season 1 for the first time since it aired this week just to see what is apparent with hindsight, and came across this thread. Might as well share some insights gleaned from YouTube interviews with people with credible associations to others attached to the show. Usual reading the tea leaves / Kremlinology / rumor warnings apply.

Discovery season 1 can be broken into three segments more or less in behind the scenes production history.

Bryan Fuller's "original vision", with the writing and production staff he recruited.

• 13 episode outlined, with Fuller writing the teleplay for episode 1 and Nicholas Meyer for episode 2
• Likely people recruited by Fuller included in addition to Meyer, Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts, and Joe Menosky include Jesse Alexander (who previously worked with Fuller on Hannibal and Heroes, but also with Bad Robot people on Alias and Lost), Aron Eli Coleite (who previously worked with Fuller on Heroes), Trek novelist Kirsten Beyer, Bo Yeon Kim & Erika Lippoldt (who worked on Reign with Berg & Harberts), and Kemp Powers (a playwright with no prior TV credits)
  
• the look of the Klingons would still have been changed, but uniform and ship production design would have had greater TOS era continuity
• Lorca wasn't set to be from the Mirror universe
• the mycelium spores were originally supposed to be used in planetary terraforming and not the spore drive
• the tardigrade was an officer working with Stamets on the spore project
• the Discovery would travel to the Mirror universe much earlier -- by the end of episode 4, with more of a focus on diverging pathways and what might have happened to Burnham had she taken different actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars (link to a write up of a Bryan Fuller interview with Robert Meyer Burnett where he covers his mirror universe plan in broad strokes)
• Meyer suggested ST VI composer Cliff Eidelman to Fuller, who produced an unused theme song

Fuller allegedly clashed with CBS assigned pilot director David Semel. One account has CBS freaking out about the cost overruns and delays... slow productivity in the writers room. Then you have in the background all the minutia that animates certain segments of YouTube with just how involved Secret Hideout was in the beginning, Bad Robot / CBS / Paramount deals, how a Trek novelist reported that Secret Hideout predecessor company K/O Paper Products had some kind of television production rights for Star Trek, and the lot.

Next, you have the transitional phase of early production season 1.

• Bryan Fuller departs, but remains credited as executive producer throughout the first season per contract.
  
• More speculation side indicated Nicholas Meyer likely departs at the same time, but remains credited as a consulting producer for the first 13 episodes per contract. He works on the three part Ceti Alpha V project,
  Spoiler: if the audio drama is ever made...

  with the main twist being Ceti Alpha VI was inhabited by an indigenous population when it exploded, and survivors come to V and interact with Khan.
  Neither Fuller or Meyer have assistants credited in the end credits, unlike other high ranking producers.
• Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts take over as showrunners, while Akiva Goldsman comes in as a day to day proxy for Alex Kurtzman. They repeatedly clash.
• Bryan Fuller's teleplay for "The Vulcan Hello" is re-written by Goldsman, the final writing credit reads "Teleplay by Bryan Fuller and Akiva Goldsman" / "Story by Bryan Fuller & Alex Kurtzman". Per WGA rules, "and" = a rewritten draft, while "&" = a writing team collaborating at the same time.
• Nicholas Meyer's teleplay for "Battle of the Binary Stars" is thrown out or otherwise vacated, the final writing credit reads "Teleplay by Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts" / "Story by Bryan Fuller"
• Fuller's final credited input comes in episode 3... "Teleplay by Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts & Craig Sweeny" / "Story by Bryan Fuller & Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts"
• Episode 3 is directed by Goldsman, who won't receive an episode specific credit again until the finale
  
• I'm unsure just where Craig Sweeny fits into this. He's credited as a consulting producer for the first 13 episodes and has his own credited assistant. He was likely under an overall production deal at CBS, and held the seat while developing projects he would be expected to showrun. His past credits include work with prior Trek writers Ira Steven Behr, Rene Echevarria, Robert Hewitt Wolfe, and Robert Doherty. His only writing credit is on episode 3.
  
• With episode 3, Ted Sullivan joins the writing staff as a co-executive producer. In order of precedence he outranks Menosky, Alexander, and Coleite in the credits. He previously worked with Berg & Harberts on Revenge.
• Episode 3 also sees the introduction of Sean Cochran as a staff writer, outranking Kemp Powers in order of precedence but below Kristen Beyer. Cochran worked on a whopping three different series with Berg & Harberts: Off the Map, GCB, and Revenge
• Episodes 4, 5, 6, 7 sees Alexander, Coleite, Powers, Menosky, and Sullivan all credited as writers
• Powers' last credit on the writing staff is episode 5, which he also co-wrote ("Choose Your Pain")

The major transition point between early and later season 1 occurs between episode 7 "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" and episode 8 "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" as several Bryan Fuller people depart and those with closer direct associations to Berg & Harberts come aboard

• Alexander, Coleite, and Menosky all depart in one go
• Lisa Randolph, who worked on Reign with Berg & Harberts joins as co-executive producer as of episode 7
  
• Jordon Nardino, who worked on GCB with Berg & Harberts joins as co-executive producer as of episode 8
  
• Beyer writes episode 8, her only writing credit of the season (which despite it's relatively short running time apparently had a lot cut out of it)
• Kim & Lippoldt write episode 9, their only writing credit of the season
• Randolph (twice), Nardino, Cochran, and Sullivan write the remaining episodes during the mirror arc until the finale
• Season finale credits "Teleplay by Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts" / "Story by Akiva Goldsman & Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts" / "Directed by Akiva Goldsman"

Ok there went over an hour... maybe later on I'll do one on season 2

 

[The Wormhole]

Lorca wasn't set to be from the Mirror universe

Only because it wasn't originally going to be the Mirror Universe, but rather just another alternate universe, one where the Battle of the Binary Stars played out differently. Lorca was going to be from the alternate universe, that was the plan all along. Jason Isaacs says he was told as much the moment he was signed onto the show.

 

[Midquest]

That was always my take...a great Trek story about the old Arthur C. Clarke tenet of "sufficiently advanced species / technology can seem like magic" was kind of what I anticipated...maybe even leaving it open to viewer interpretation....but alas we never got it, and I think that is a shame.

I think Season 2 is still my favorite season, but it still confounds me that the obelisks on Saru's world looked nearly identical to the Preserver obelisk, and even appeared in behind-the-scenes materials described as Preserver obelisks. I have to imagine a different story was originally in the offing.

 

[plynch]

ay-yup

 

[shapeshifter]

I think Season 2 is still my favorite season, but it still confounds me that the obelisks on Saru's world looked nearly identical to the Preserver obelisk, and even appeared in behind-the-scenes materials described as Preserver obelisks. I have to imagine a different story was originally in the offing.

Not the first time they did the 'ole bait and switch. Leads to thinking some huge canon connection is being teased then, nope. Gotcha!

THIS thing did double duty... as the Edo peoples god in Justice and the Lysian Central Command in Conundrum.

 

[The Wormhole]

Not the first time they did the 'ole bait and switch. Leads to thinking some huge canon connection is being teased then, nope. Gotcha!

THIS thing did double duty... as the Edo peoples god in Justice and the Lysian Central Command in Conundrum.

Well, yes, we know designs have always been reused before in situations where there's not meant to be any connection. But I believe the point Midquest was making here is that the behind the scenes material actually specifically referred to the Ba'ul obelisks as Preserver Obelisks, perhaps implying that at one point there was in fact a plan to have the Preservers involved in the storyline of season 2.

 

[BillJ]

All the money they spent and the acting talent that they assembled, the show should've been a heck of a lot better than its ended up being.

 

[donners22]

The first two seasons are among my favourites of any Trek season. Perhaps the other shows could have used a bit more chaos. Goodness knows the Berman era could have used some shaking up at times rather than getting so entrenched in a rut.