News Georgiou Section 31 Series officially announced:

[The Habs Fan]

Fuck this.
No, seriously, FUCK this!


-"Hey, I've got an idea for a show: We rescued Hitler from the bunker, and now he's our show's hero, doing cool spy stuff for our side and being all emotionally conflicted about the Holocaust and stuff!"
-"Sounds great! But let's also make him a Cannibal that ATE Jews!"
-"Yes! But also, he thinks Jews are a different race, so it's technically not 'cannibalism', he just liked to ate 'sentient beings'."
-"Now we're talking! Also, let's have a scene where he gloats one Jew in the face how much he enjoyed dining on their kind!".
-"He's still totes the hero of our show and on a sympathic redemption arc though."


Fuck. This.

Can you really be Space Hitler if the whole universe you are from operates with the same morality? Also, I kind of like the idea of a show that has a villain as the main character. Star Trek has always had heroes as the focus of the show. Why not the anti-hero?

I'm looking forward to this show but of course I don't have a very narrow view of what Star Trek is.

 

[Rahul]

No, no.

Let me quote from Karl Marx himself:

"Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce".

Ladies and gentlemen, I presenf to you the real-world prototype of Mirror Empress:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Bokassa

Well, even this nice chap was exonorated from cannibalism. And even then, he didn't join "Team America" after is reign/rampage.

So yeah, that makes even third-grade African wanna-be dicators more heroic than our new actual Star Trek heroes.

Fuck this.

 

[SolarisOne]

There is no evidence of that yet.

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[Rahul]

Can you really be Space Hitler if the whole universe you are from operates with the same morality? Also, I kind of like the idea of a show that has a villain as the main character. Star Trek has always had heroes as the focus of the show. Why not the anti-hero?

I'm looking forward to this show but of course I don't have a very narrow view of what Star Trek is.

Look, I'm all for more variety in Star Trek, and I'm also in for shows with anti-heroes as main characters.

Just off the top of my head, DIS introduced us to a new version of Harry Mudd. And his short made him actually even very compelling. Having this kind-of evil, but also charming rogue and cunning con-man as a protagonist would be a concept I could totally get behind! I even can see a Section 31-series. Would be hard to pull off, but possible, and the worst thing that could happen would be it simply just not being very good. But even if I would end up not watching it, I wouldn't despise the showrunners for even coming up with some shit like this in the first place. At this point, I really start having contempt for the people coming up with this.

Is it really too much to ask for - to NOT have a show set in an optimistic future be headlined by a genocidal, cannibal, amped-up HITLER as your main character?

 

[Rahul]

I'm often somewhat vocally critical of DIS. But I really don't want DIS to be cancelled or anything, I just want it to improve. There are may things I don't like, but also as many things I genuinely enjoy about it.

This shit on the other hand? I wish failure upon this show, right from it's announcement, from the bottom of my heart. As I would do for any other show that would try to make cannibal Hitler the dark but sympathic, redeemable hero, no matter the franchise or context. On a matter of principles.

 

[DigificWriter]

Section 31 having their own black badges does not mean that their existence is publicly known within Starfleet as being Section 31, and I wish people would quit making that assumption.

This shit on the other hand? I wish failure upon this show, right from it's announcement, from the bottom of my heart. As I would do for any other show that would try to make cannibal Hitler the dark but sympathic, redeemable hero, no matter the franchise or context. On a matter of principles.

With an attitude like this, you must really hate movies like The Silence of the Lambs, Friday the 13th, and Halloween and television series like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and Hannibal.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Section 31 having their own black badges does not mean that their existence is publicly known within Starfleet as being Section 31, and I wish people would quit making that assumption.

Agreed. And until we have more than a little bonus scene to go on, we have no idea how it will be handled.

 

[Cake]

Section 31 having their own black badges does not mean that their existence is publicly known within Starfleet as being Section 31, and I wish people would quit making that assumption.



With an attitude like this, you must really hate movies like The Silence of the Lambs, Friday the 13th, and Halloween and television series like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and Hannibal.

Pike acted like Section 31 is public knowledge in Starfleet. At 0:46 in the video. He recognizes those badges at once and it is not like they are hiding them. We saw them already in season 1 on the Discovery.

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Personally I haven't bothered to watch any of your six examples. But even if someone likes them, they are all not playing in a Star Trek like future which should be optimistic and positive and where the bad guys shouldn't be written in a way to make people root for them.

I like for example Marvel's The Punisher. I still don't want classically nice superheroes like Superman to act like him. It would be just wrong. A series with Superman who brutally kills the bad guys all the time would be horrible and I seriously would look down on whatever producers/writers thought it would be a good idea to turn Superman into a killing machine instead of using an already established anti hero character for their gore stories or create a new character to tell those stories.

The same thing is happening here with Section 31 and Georgiou. Some idiots just seem to not like the whole spirit, premise or whatever you like to call it which Star Trek is based on. It is suppose to be about a positive future with overall nicer, better humans. A future people of today like to aspire to and not a warning example which should be avoided. DIS season 1 was already horrible enough. For example practically no one had a problem with enslaving and torturing the poor tardigrade until it was nearly dead. And the Federation planned to capture, enslave and torture even more of its species. And it didn't even feel like they had a bad conscience because of it. It made everyone appear really nasty. This new Section 31/Georgiou series takes the worst aspects of DIS and increase them. Actually it is worse than turning Superman into The Punisher as The Punisher is at least killing the bad guys and isn't so morally corrupt to hire and work with someone like Georgiou like the Federation does.

 

[UssGlenn]

So I thought "Into Darkness" missed a huge opportunity to have Khan be a good guy, So I'm up for a series where a villain evolves through their experiences to be better. Assuming that's actually what her character arc is.

 

[BurnhamAll]

I agree. I would love to see a show that takes place between TUC and the events of "Yesterday's Enterprise." But apparently that ship has sailed in favor of TPTB thinking we want to see old Picard and a show about some psychopath and her psychopath organization.

You sound bitter you're not getting exactly what you want. Trek fans have NEVER gotten exactly what they wanted. Every time a new series was announced fans have complained that they instead wanted this or that. In 1987 they whined it should have been a series about Kirk and Spock, in the mid 90s they wanted a Sulu/Excelsior series, in 2001 fans wanted a "Trek All-Star" series. After Nemesis they wanted a Riker/Titan series.

We don't get to decide, and we never will. That kind of "ugh they didn't do what I wanted and I am soooo bitter about it" is just childish and asinine.

 

[Tuskin38]

Fuck this.
No, seriously, FUCK this!


-"Hey, I've got an idea for a show: We rescued Hitler from the bunker, and now he's our show's hero, doing cool spy stuff for our side and being all emotionally conflicted about the Holocaust and stuff!"
-"Sounds great! But let's also make him a Cannibal that ATE Jews!"
-"Yes! But also, he thinks Jews are a different race, so it's technically not 'cannibalism', he just liked to ate 'sentient beings'."
-"Now we're talking! Also, let's have a scene where he gloats one Jew in the face how much he enjoyed dining on their kind!".
-"He's still totes the hero of our show and on a sympathic redemption arc though."


Fuck. This.

Also, this is fucking sci-fi. They can do everything to bring back a dead character.

Yes, I would love a Star Trek show featuring Michelle Yeoh as the main character. And yes, they killed her character. But Jesus Christ. Have the main character be Georgious secret evil clone, or a timetravel version or something. DON'T MAKE SPACE HITLER YOUR MAIN CHARACTER. That really shouldn't need to be explained!

You really need to calm down.

 

[Tuskin38]

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I should have clarified. I meant the parts of it that do the super secret shady evil stuff that isn’t public knowledge.

My current pet theory is that Section 31 in DSC has a public facing section which is your basic black ops, and then under all that there’s the part of it we see in DS9 and ENT. The part no one knows about, that has no approval from SFC or the Federation Council.

I think Season 2 might expose what they have been doing and drive them underground.

 

[ALF]

Missed opportunity. It could have been so great as a prequel series with the PU character instead, The USS Shenzhou under Phillipa's command pre-Burnham.

I'll still be watching for sure but I would have preferred greatly the classic Trek premise with a character that was just killed off as the series began - and one who is apparently one of the top 5 Starfleet captains to boot! I guess that premise isn't raw or edgy enough to grab the audience like a gritty Section 31 offering.

I wonder if Michelle had any say in the development of this? Maybe they wanted it to be PU but the actor preferred playing the MU character so they went from there? Maybe the writers thought they could do more with her at the end of S1 Disco.

 

[Tuvix5675]

Yeah, I am kinda the same way. The Empress is a psychopath, that's fine as a villain you do not have to get emotionally invested in, but an entire series around that? Is she going to eat puppies every week?

And Section 31 works better in small doses, not seeing them all the time. They are fine villains, they can contrast the more idealistic Star Fleet personnel, but I am not sure I would want to see them commit war crimes in the name of the greater good all the time.

They'll probably have to dial back the evilness of the character to make her more digestible. I was thinking this show would be more like Alias in space. Afterall, Kurtzman was a supervising producer on that show.

 

[Tuskin38]

I’m guessing there will be character development with Georgiou in season 2 that will lead into this series.

 

[Tuvix5675]

Missed opportunity. It could have been so great as a prequel series with the PU character instead, The USS Shenzhou under Phillipa's command pre-Burnham.

I'll still be watching for sure but I would have preferred greatly the classic Trek premise with a character that was just killed off as the series began - and one who is apparently one of the top 5 Starfleet captains to boot! I guess that premise isn't raw or edgy enough to grab the audience like a gritty Section 31 offering.

I wonder if Michelle had any say in the development of this? Maybe they wanted it to be PU but the actor preferred playing the MU character so they went from there? Maybe the writers thought they could do more with her at the end of S1 Disco.

I wanted this too, but they would probably need Doug Jones as Saru to pull it off, and some of the other Discovery characters that transferred over from the Shenzhou. But yeah, I too felt cheated not getting to know the Shenzhou crew very well before they were killed off. And the Shenzhou crew seemed more likable than the Discovery crew.

 

[ALF]

I wanted this too, but they would probably need Doug Jones as Saru to pull it off, and some of the other Discovery characters that transferred over from the Shenzhou. But yeah, I too felt cheated not getting to know the Shenzhou crew very well before they were killed off. And the Shenzhou crew seemed more likable than the Discovery crew.

Ahh! You are totally correct, the Disco gang is too busy to be in two shows, and then the duplication of characters wouldn't make sense. Right.

 

[fireproof78]

A series with Superman who brutally kills the bad guys all the time would be horrible and I seriously would look down on whatever producers/writers thought it would be a good idea to turn Superman into a killing machine instead of using an already established anti hero character for their gore stories or create a new character to tell those stories.

I would not recommend reading the "Injustice" line of comics then.

So I thought "Into Darkness" missed a huge opportunity to have Khan be a good guy, So I'm up for a series where a villain evolves through their experiences to be better. Assuming that's actually what her character arc is.

I hope that is what it is. It has potential.

 

[Rahul]

With an attitude like this, you must really hate movies like The Silence of the Lambs, Friday the 13th, and Halloween and television series like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and Hannibal.

None of them made CANNIBAL HITLER the sympathic main character in a non-ironic way.
--> strawman-argument to a T

Also, you're absolutely missing the point of these shows: The point about Breaking Bad is that Walter White is NOT the good guy! You should empathize with him. But he's not "the hero". If you watch this show purely to see how fucking cool he is, trashing his stupid wife and kicking ass and shit, and fully supporting his character and his choices - that would be really messed up.

 

[eschaton]

None of them made CANNIBAL HITLER the sympathic main character in a non-ironic way.
--> strawman-argument to a T

Also, you're absolutely missing the point of these shows: The point about Breaking Bad is that Walter White is NOT the good guy! You should empathize with him. But he's not "the hero". If you watch this show purely to see how fucking cool he is, trashing his stupid wife and kicking ass and shit, and fully supporting his character and his choices - that would be really messed up.

This also gets back to a problem with the MU Georgiou show. Because even if they chose to take a note from Breaking Bad, and do a five-season descent into total depravity, there's a limit to how much damage she could do to the ideals of the Federation considering its...you know...a prequel. The macro outcome is never in doubt.