Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

[2takesfrakes]

You KNOW it's bad, when Leonard Nimoy doesn't even want to be in it for the money, because he's got some sense of pride left and doesn't want his name on it. He saw all the movie's problems, just in the script itself. I mean ... when somebody who might have a clue what he's talking about says to you, "this is a first draft, at best, what are you basing a movie on this for?" don't you think you just might want to revisit it, just in case he MIGHT have a point?

 

[Hober Mallow]

IMO, this movie is garbage. Kirk was killed like a punk (twice!), and the Enterprise-D suffered an embarrassing death, and both were killed for no purpose other than for filler. Oh, and Picard's brother and nephew were offed for good measure too, so that Picard could feel bad along with Data, puh-lease.

And I remember Ron Moore giving an interview around the time in which he stated the goal for the film: that it be fun. LOL...

It's so bad that as far as I'm concerned, the TNG crew ended with All Good Things. It got things off to such a bad start, that it's hard to enjoy First Contact. I'm not a fan of retconning the queen into BOBW.

It ended whatever interest in the Borg I still had. A collective had the potential to be interesting; a "hive" with a sexy "queen" is b-movie crap.

 

[jimbotron]

When I saw this as a kid, I wondered why Chekov was acting like McCoy (being a medic, deputizing nurses), and why he and Scotty seemed to be much more buddy-buddy with Kirk. Then later I found out, the opening was meant for McCoy and Spock, and the writers didn't even bother to change most of the dialogue. A facepalm moment for sure.

Generations had TV sets (well duh), TV uniforms, TV writers, a TV director, a TV composer, with a story hamstrung by another TV show. Nuts-and-bolts with zero ambition. The only thing about Generations that was film-caliber was the ILM effects (except for the oddly reused shots from Encounter at Farpoint). Compared to the ambitious Star Trek The Motion Picture with a big name director and Jerry Goldsmith, "There Is No Comparison."

 

[Khan 2.0]

TNG movies = episodes on the big screen (esp GEN/INS)

TOS movies = movies on the big screen

 

[2takesfrakes]

For all of its problems, I still find GENERATIONS to be watchable. And it does have some pretty special stuff on offer, particularly the cinematography. A lot of care was given to the look of the sets, the cast ... everything just looks fantastic! It's great seeing Guinan onboard and doing her thing. Malcolm McDowell is - predictably - really damn good, in it ... and it's certainly "different" from any other STAR TREK movie, that's for sure. And when Data gets to swear, I still smile at it. The only part I fast forward is Geordi and Data's wandering around the observatory. I hate every, single utterance out of Data's mouth as his "humour" becomes increasingly annoying. I do not want to be "annoyed" I want to be "entertained." So ... forgive me the fast forward.

 

[Saul]

Obviously if it had been done today we've would have had two Enterprises and two crews battling together against some super foe.

Having a crossover happen in a kitchen and on horses wasn't giving the audience what they really wanted. It was just trying to be cute which is what Moore and Braga admit.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Obviously if it had been done today we've would have had two Enterprises and two crews battling together against some super foe.

for sure. If it was today itd be Star Trek Avengers

maybe they do it for ST3

 

[Hober Mallow]

I've never understood why it was taken for granted by everyone involved in the production that the first TNG film had to be crossover with the original crew. If they didn't believe TNG could stand on its own on the big screen, they shouldn't have bothered with a movie in the first place.

 

[Khan 2.0]

yeah they shouldve made Trek VII Ashes of Eden directed by Shatner (bet itd have been pretty good - check out the comic adaptation of the novel - really feels like a DC adaptation of a Trek VII that never was)

hed have had to made damn sure he got ILM though

 

[jimbotron]

I've never understood why it was taken for granted by everyone involved in the production that the first TNG film had to be crossover with the original crew. If they didn't believe TNG could stand on its own on the big screen, they shouldn't have bothered with a movie in the first place.

From what I gathered from interviews, Berman and the TNG staff were reluctant to do it, but Paramount mandated it, which was bogus. The same audience who embraced TNG on TV are the ones who would go see the movie. By 1994, Trek was a juggernaut franchise with TNG and DS9 and Voyager on the way. Shoehorning in Kirk was misguided fear by the suits.

From what RDM and Braga said in interviews and commentary, they had a really hard time figuring out a way to bring Kirk and Picard together. That impacted being able to craft a decent story, so as a result, the entire movie is big patchwork.

Ironically, the meeting of Picard and Kirk is anti-climactic. As RedLetterMedia points out in their review, Picard first tries to get Guinan to come back with him to fight Soran. She says she's just an echo and can't leave, but there's someone else who might help. So Kirk is just a stand-in for Guinan.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I'm becoming genuinely interested in knowing if any 'suits' ever mandated anything which turned out to be a good idea...

"Those studio execs really were firing on all cylinders when they mandated that such-and-such be done!"

Know what I mean?

 

[Shat Happens]

I'll say one thing important but overlooked: non-USA markets.

In 1994 nobody outside the USA knew who Picard and his gang were. It would be difficult ( in other words: less lucrative) to market a Star Trek brand movie without Kirk.

So screw the 7 years of tv TNG.

 

[trevanian]

yeah they shouldve made Trek VII Ashes of Eden directed by Shatner (bet itd have been pretty good - check out the comic adaptation of the novel - really feels like a DC adaptation of a Trek VII that never was)

hed have had to made damn sure he got ILM though

And his followup novel THE RETURN could have been trek 8, with the borg aspect (supposedly he even pitched Berman on it.)

Honestly I'd've preferred seeing ASHES to what we got with TUC. I think its original form (which predates TUC and GEN) was Shat's own take for a followup from TFF based on the idea he'd get to do a second film. It certainly fits with the stuff about Shatner wanting to do a fountain of youth story.

 

[sonak]

yeah they shouldve made Trek VII Ashes of Eden directed by Shatner (bet itd have been pretty good - check out the comic adaptation of the novel - really feels like a DC adaptation of a Trek VII that never was)

hed have had to made damn sure he got ILM though

And his followup novel THE RETURN could have been trek 8, with the borg aspect (supposedly he even pitched Berman on it.)

Honestly I'd've preferred seeing ASHES to what we got with TUC. I think its original form (which predates TUC and GEN) was Shat's own take for a followup from TFF based on the idea he'd get to do a second film. It certainly fits with the stuff about Shatner wanting to do a fountain of youth story.

the problem with AOE and the Return is that they're both very obviously love letters to Captain Kirk. That would be awkward to have the first two Next Gen movies both be very much focused on Kirk, as they would have been if GEN had been followed up by The Return.

 

[varek]

I've never understood why it was taken for granted by everyone involved in the production that the first TNG film had to be crossover with the original crew. If they didn't believe TNG could stand on its own on the big screen, they shouldn't have bothered with a movie in the first place.

From what I gathered from interviews, Berman and the TNG staff were reluctant to do it, but Paramount mandated it, which was bogus. The same audience who embraced TNG on TV are the ones who would go see the movie. By 1994, Trek was a juggernaut franchise with TNG and DS9 and Voyager on the way. Shoehorning in Kirk was misguided fear by the suits.

From what RDM and Braga said in interviews and commentary, they had a really hard time figuring out a way to bring Kirk and Picard together. That impacted being able to craft a decent story, so as a result, the entire movie is big patchwork.

Ironically, the meeting of Picard and Kirk is anti-climactic. As RedLetterMedia points out in their review, Picard first tries to get Guinan to come back with him to fight Soran. She says she's just an echo and can't leave, but there's someone else who might help. So Kirk is just a stand-in for Guinan.

I agree that the story seemed patched-together, and not all of the original Enterprise crew appeared in the film. But, I think the TNG part of the film was excellent, so Generations remains my favorite Star Trek movie.

It's too bad the Duras sisters had to go! I kind of miss them!

 

[jimbotron]

The TNG stuff was good, unfortunately it was bogged down with too much melodrama - Data freaking out about his emotion chip, and Picard down about his family loss.

Taking the TNG parts alone on its own merits and contrasting it amongst the best TNG episodes, I don't think it even cracks the top 30.

 

[austen_pierce]

"Worst possible" is pretty strong language. There's a lot to like about this film from the TOS actors we DO see, to the unique lighting, seeing the ENT-D on the big screen, some decent acting by the TNG crew, and some pretty amazing special effects.

It could have been way worse. Having the ENT-A fight the ENT-D would have been worse IMO since the two are (forgive the language) generations apart. The writing for Soran could have left McDowell wasted, like Hardy was in Nemesis. I read Crossover, but it's been a long time ago, so I don't remember much. They could also have left the orbital skydiving scene in, which was terrible.

It could also have been way better. I too could have done without Picard losing his family, which seemed to serve no point. I could have used less Data/LaForge comedy hour (although Burton's expressions of annoyance are priceless). Instead of bringing Kirk forward, they might have sent BOTH ships somewhere/some-when and had two ships, captains, and crews work together.

My two cents...

 

[jimbotron]

Even calling Generations a crossover is generous, because it barely fits the bill. Kirk and Picard spend all of what, five minutes of screentime together, and all in the third act? Then Kirk is killed in short order. We don't even see Picard mentioning Kirk to anyone else, so as far as anyone else is concerned, he was never there.

Unification I (with five seconds of Nimoy) is more of a crossover than Generations was. Relics certainly. Heck, even Encounter at Farpoint.

The poster with Kirk and Picard is false advertising, IMO.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Even calling Generations a crossover is generous, because it barely fits the bill.

You could argue that Generations is a TNG episode with a guest star the weekly series couldn't afford.

Nimoy had a reason to do TNG; he had a movie to promote and TNG gave him a way of promoting it.

Doohan also had a reason to do TNG; he didn't have a career and could use a paying gig. (Harsh, but also sadly true.)

Shatner never had a reason to TNG. It would've been about the money for him, and on the weekly budget he wasn't affordable.

 

[Khan 2.0]

dunno if this has been posted here yet
http://www.startrek.com/article/recap-qa-with-malcolm-mcdowell