when you write "from a filmmaking perspective" referring to Star Trek V are you including writing as an element or only purely technical ones?
Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?
- Thread starter Mr Light
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when you write "from a filmmaking perspective" referring to Star Trek V are you including writing as an element or only purely technical ones?
Apparently Shatner originally had Spock and McCoy betraying Kirk in STV just like everyone else until Nimoy and Kelley said they weren't going to do that.
It would have been nice to see the movie start off like First Contact, but instead of going back in time to stop Zephram Cochrane, the Borg go back in time to stop the signing of the Khitomer Accords by launching an attack on the Enterprise A. First Contact with Kirk and company instead of a bunch of post-apocalyptic drunks?
And the Second Bananas never do answer for their betrayal of Kirk and Starfleet in TFF. Maybe Bones put in a good word for them after his "cleansing." Poor George Takei ... not only is Sulu still anchored there at that console for decades, like an idiot, but George doesn't have enough clout to tell Shatner, "I ain't having that." And I love how during Uhura's fan dance, the approaching lowlifers on Nimbus 3 only get disappointed that federation soldiers have their buffalo rifles a'pointed at 'em, rather than the realization that they'd actually been salivating over a fat, old lady.
I re-watched GEN tonight, and I would have to say this is not only the worst Trek film ever made, but one of the worst of the 90's as well. This thread covers all the problems pretty well, but I have to have a shot at Brent Spiner here - as one of the best actors on the show, his performance here was just embarrassing to watch. The tone of the film jumps around in a very odd way. It is very jarring going from Spiner's 'comedy' to scenes discussing children dying in fires. To quote Data, in one word, this movie is "Shit".
But to give credit where it is due, Malcolm McDowell made a good fist of Soran, and the refurbished bridge set looked terrific. That's about it though. What a horrible way to launch TNG on the big screen.
But to give credit where it is due, Malcolm McDowell made a good fist of Soran, and the refurbished bridge set looked terrific. That's about it though. What a horrible way to launch TNG on the big screen.
Purely technical ones--the aforementioned cinematography, editing, etc. Shatner really made the most of outdoor locations, lighting, sets, & camera angles, and the film does move along at a steady pace. There are special effects that are very questionable, but that's really more of an issue of Paramount going for a cheaper SFX company that resulted in both low quality and even unfinished effects due to budget and time restraints.
What's more important, though, is the final result. Every film goes through a collaborative process (between scriptwriters, directors, producers, actors, and even a studio) in which various ideas are bandied about and changed during production.
I agree, in real life, death comes when it comes, not when you want it to.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with the TOS/TNG crossover idea. Frankly, it was always meant to be a TNG film. The TOS elements were really just there to send the TNG crew on their way in the films. Just like Bones did for the TNG crew in "Encounter at Farpoint," or Picard did for the DS9 crew in "Emissary" or Quark did for the Voyager crew in "Caretaker." For the TOS crew to be more involved in Generations would be the same if Bones was a bigger part of "Encounter at Farpoint," or Picard in "Emissary," or Quark in Caretaker." It just would not work and it would take away from what the film/show is about.
If you want a TOS film, there are six of them that came before Generations. Generations was a TNG film. I really don't see what the big deal is?
Na, that "honor" easily goes to everything JJ Abrams tries to pass of as Star Trek.
If you're going to include a TOS crossover then why do it so badly. The big deal is there was heaps of time 'wasted' showing the TOS crew in the ENT-B and Kirk riding horses and battling on Veridian 3 This time already allocated could have been used profitably.
The Kirk - Picard meeting didn't end up being cool. Just pathetic. Two old guys riding to nowhere. Surely at their respective ages a battle of wits on the bridge of their vessels would be more satisfying to everyone. Not 3 old guys in a fist fight. I can go down the pub and see that on a Saturday night for free ( minus drink costs).
And I for one did not believe that a 'handover' was needed. TNG had been doing fine by itself for years.
I'm personally would have been happier if it went the same way as 'Encounter at Farpoint' and have 2 minutes of Kirk on screen saying how fantastic Picard was and then stop. It would be better than sitting through the nonsense on Veridian 3.
And I think it have been a 'big deal' to a TNG fan if Picard had died in NEM by falling over and then buried secretly unacknowledged on a planet.
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But if you don't consider the Abrams movies as Star Trek, we'd be back to square and have to pick one of those that came before as worst Trek film ever.
Botany Bay has some points regarding GEN, but I had so many more issues with the next film, especially the Borg turning into Zombies and suddenly having a Queen Bee...
Bob
That is a much better idea.
Tangentally I think the novel Federation offered a much more interesting type of crossover. The two crews were so tantalizingly close to each other, but didn't cross over into overt fannishness by having the characters actually meet.
See, I read comments like these and I just can't grasp them. GEN as one of the WORST FILMS of the '90s?
If you look at professional critic reviews of it, while not great, it's certainly not considered a terrible movie. If you just look at dialogue, story, acting, etc. I don't see how this is regarded as an awful film. I think the hate directed toward this film is the result of a few disliked plot points and not a reflection of its overall quality.
People sometimes blame Shatner for being involved in this movie, when Nimoy and Kelley had the good sense to stay away after reading the atrocious script. A talk that Shatner gave during his stage show that I saw a couple of years ago sheds some light on why he might have agreed to appear in GEN despite the great farewell the TOS crew were given in TUC.
Shatner grew up during the great depression, and while his family did not starve (his father was a salesman from memory and managed to keep food on the table), young Bill saw plenty around him struggling, and his father passed onto him a strong work ethic. His attitude to any kind of work is to do it as long as he price is right, no matter what it is.
I can accept that, but watching GEN's Kirk scenes, it is apparent that Kirk on his own without Spock and Bones around him is not all that interesting, even alongside a brilliant actor like Patrick Stewart.
One other thing I noticed : check out the scene where Picard and Kirk are cooking together (), and there's a line where he asks Picard to get him some ingredients, the camera pans away to the right and it looks like the Shat-man on the left is about to burst out laughing.
Shatner grew up during the great depression, and while his family did not starve (his father was a salesman from memory and managed to keep food on the table), young Bill saw plenty around him struggling, and his father passed onto him a strong work ethic. His attitude to any kind of work is to do it as long as he price is right, no matter what it is.
I can accept that, but watching GEN's Kirk scenes, it is apparent that Kirk on his own without Spock and Bones around him is not all that interesting, even alongside a brilliant actor like Patrick Stewart.
One other thing I noticed : check out the scene where Picard and Kirk are cooking together (
), and there's a line where he asks Picard to get him some ingredients, the camera pans away to the right and it looks like the Shat-man on the left is about to burst out laughing.
Spock and Data were actually the most interesting part of that, I thought. There could have been more of that and less skulking around in caves, really.
Yeh the cave thing. Romulus looked to me to be some primitive subsistence planet judging it from what we see in 'Unification'. Was there another episode where we saw Romulus being the thriving galaxy-power planet?
I read the novelisation and this aspect of Romulus is even worse. This crossover TOS/TNG is pardoxally a serious scratch of what the Romulans were in TOS. I don't totally dislike Unification, but the sequel Face of the Enemy is smarter by developing Romulus as the authoritarian/totalitarian society and not as as a planet populated by warp-capable ugly hobgoblins wearing potato bags and living in caves.
It would have been even MORE interesting to have Romulus not be the typical oppressed/authoritarian society we always see.
That just gave me an interesting idea for an episode that would be a nice social comment on the USA's relationship with some countries.
An episode that points out the Federation's hypocrisy in looking the other way when their closest ally, The Klingons, have a caste system, still enslave conquered people* and any number of human rights problems.
*Yes, In this scenario I'm assuming the Klingons do this. I can't really expect them to completely reform their society in some 100 years.
I appreciate to see Commander Toreth herself be bitter about the Tal Shiar's terror regime despite she's ready to summarily execute anyone on her ship, but I agree with your ideas.
But Vulcans are so enamoured with caves that they even give birth in them (TFF). So the Romulans were just trying to remind themselves of their ancestral homeland!
Considering their greenish faces, I would say that romulan troglodyte life-style is not a great idea.
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