• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Generations (spoilers)

AJBryant said:
And I maintain -- as I *always* have -- that the premise of killing suns to draw the Nexus is totally bogus to begin with. Sorin is depending on the draw of gravity to pull the nexus to a planet -- so why didn't he just get in a shuttlecraft and park in front of it and wait?

We only saw the Nexus take people TWICE up to the point of the scenes on the rocket gantry planet, and BOTH times it took people from ships in its path (Guinan's people's ship and Kirk from the Big E). Heck, that was how Sorin encountered it in the first place, after all...

Tony

You would have thought it would have been easier for sorin to just buy/rent a ship and a space suit, fly in front of the nexus, enter space suit, leave ship,or even beam out, enter nexus....The Federation would have probably funded or even helped him do it this way.
 
Picard: "Why doesn't he just fly into it with a ship?"

My guess is there's too big a risk that the ship would be destroyed and Soran killed before he actually made it to the Nexus.
 
I just bought the special collectors edition of Generations last week. The commentary with Moore and Braga is absolutely horrid. They don't seem to know anything about the series itself, let alone the movie.
 
^^
They can't tell Lursa and B'Etor apart. They mistake the number of saucer separations. I know this sounds fanboyish, but if I was working on something for years, I'd know these things.
 
^Whoopie. Sometimes when you work on something, you're not as...shall we say obsessive...about the minutiae. You prefer to go home and do something else for fun.

Moore has said in his BSG podcasts that he can't even watch dramatic television series of any genre because it tends to turn on his "work mode", and he'll find himself picking apart what works and what doesn't rather than sitting back and escaping.

Moore still frequently cites his experience on Trek in his podcasts...it shaped how he works, and he's tried to shape BSG based on what he feels worked and what didn't in modern Trek.

Having not seen them in a number of years, I couldn't tell you with certainly which one was Lursa and which was B'Etor. And I want to say that there were three separations on the TV show, but if they used it in the last couple of seasons, I probably would have forgotten, not having seen those episodes since close to when they originally aired.

Ron Moore created Lursa and B'Etor...he's forgotten more about them than you ever knew.
 
Generations was a great movie IMO. Not the best, but still great. And yeah, I would have flown into the Nexus.

Music Score = Brilliant. And the scene of the ship crashing was indeed an emotional one, particularly if you had just watched the previous seven years of TNG. Death of an era.
 
Hey, if I can have a minute before y'all continue to beat me senseless...

Why bring up the points if you don't know them? I'd rather hear amusing stories or difficulties in shooting a scene. I'm obsessively compulsive about details and I just wonder why they'd bring up these points only to get them wrong.

And as for the Duras sisters, they are two different actresses! Is it so hard to look at imdb.com or something and see which actress played what to get it right?
 
I'd have to hear the context in which they were brought up. And I'm sure that they didn't want to interrupt recording the commentary to look things up on imdb.

I guess it proves that Ron Moore and David Eick know nothing about BSG...a show in which, between the two of them, they're involved in every aspect of production...because in a commentary they once referred to a recurring guest actor as "the Kevin Spacey lookalike."
 
The Old Mixer said:
Having not seen them in a number of years, I couldn't tell you with certainly which one was Lursa and which was B'Etor. And I want to say that there were three separations on the TV show, but if they used it in the last couple of seasons, I probably would have forgotten, not having seen those episodes since close to when they originally aired.

Hey, I've never been able to tell Lursa and B'Etor apart. And there have only been three saucer seperations in the series: Encounter at Farpoint, The Arsenal of Freedom, and The Best of Both Worlds.
 
Dennis McCarthy's score was adequate, if generic. In one sense it's the best of the TNG film scores, though - as Jerry Goldsmith's scores for the remaining three films were largely rehashes of his TMP material, with litle or no new themes (and those frequently of subpar quality). I think the best TNG score is probably INS, though.

RoHoJen said:
Picard: "Why doesn't he just fly into it with a ship?"

My guess is there's too big a risk that the ship would be destroyed and Soran killed before he actually made it to the Nexus.

As Kirk, Guinan, and Soran all entered the Nexus by means of an exploding ship (or being ripped out of a ship in Kirk's case) I'd say the chances of that being a problem are... nil.

Clearly the film disagrees with me, as Data cites the fact ships are destroyed as the reason Soran doesn't use this approach. This is, frankly, the one plot hole that really bugged me in the film because it doesn't even work on its own internal logic. A lot of other problems come from questions never even considered in the film, this is one that is integral, is inconsistent, is actually said and is never given a damn proper answer. Soran's insistence that his sun-destruction is 'the only way' gives greater credence to this stupidity.

Oh, and I didn't like the action movie cliche of 'the villain faces death, sudden close shot of their reaction as they do absolutely nothing to avoid it.' This applies to both Soran and the Klingon sisters (the least interesting of TNG's recurring villains), and Data's fist-pumping when the latter are incinerated simply add to the sense that this is just a popcorn movie.

That's a shame. It had a lot going for it. The issue of time, the vulnerability of death - Picard facing himself as the last scion of his family, Soran's position that 'time is a predator', and the Nexus as the ultimate, heavenly release from this problem - there was workable material there.
 
AJBryant said:
why didn't he just get in a shuttlecraft and park in front of it and wait?

The film itself showed pretty clearly that you can't just drive into the Nexus. The effect destroyed the first shipload of El-Aurian refugees, and only a few on the second ship survived.

As for everyone wanting to seek out such a sanctuary; only a few who've already been in an encounter with its wonders feel the power. Does everyone on Earth desire an LSD, Ice or Ecstacy trip? No, mainly only people who've already had one, and thus crave another one to rival the first!

And re: Lursa and B'Etor. I can never tell them apart either. People forget that most movie commentaries are taped "as live". Many participants would take in some notes, cast lists, episode titles, etc, but you can't anticipate where the conversations will necessarily lead. Although there is some editing and reloops involved, it would become an arduous task to stop taping every time someone wants to check IMDB for an actor's name.
 
And I can tell from the BSG podcasts that Ron Moore really isn't the type to care enough to get every such picayune details accurate for the sake of a commentary...he'll just make light of it and move on. He'll also light a cigaratte, knock back some scotch, chat with his wife, and complain about the garbage men outside. (The podcasts are generally recorded at home, but are later used as commentary tracks for the DVD.)

And if his wife told him that people on the boards were chastising him for getting a name wrong, he'd just make light of that.
 
Therin of Andor said:
The film itself showed pretty clearly that you can't just drive into the Nexus. The effect destroyed the first shipload of El-Aurian refugees, and only a few on the second ship survived.


Again, no, not really. This sequence shows how Soran and Guinan briefly entered the Nexus in the process of their ship being incinerated. Kirk's residence came from a whole bulkhead he was in being incinerated.

From the available evidence, it's more probable the deceased El-Aurians were, like Kirk, not killed at all, but entered the Nexus and weren't yanked out in the process as Guinan and Soran were.
 
I don't see why people don't get this whole thing about people entering the Nexus with a ship - it's not guaranteed that if you fly into it with a ship that you WILL be pulled into the Nexus BEFORE the ship explodes: I think that's what Data is *really* getting at (i.e there IS a chance you'd die before you get pulled in).

I've heard the idea mentioned several times now though that a good way around this whole problem is simply to sit in a spacesuit in the path of the Nexus and you have your problem solved. The only problem I see with this is that you could still get killed due to 'distortion waves,' radiation, etc. However, Soran seems to give the impression that as long as he's on a planet, it's guaranteed that he'll get in, so I take from that that there's no problem as long as you're not in a ship.
 
^
The thing is... Kirk was ripped into the Nexus through a bulkhead. I can't see how he couldn't have been killed, unless getting into the Nexus is really that easy - and thus non-risky.

Soran's experience, being sucked in through a ship being ripped up, was undoubtedly similar.
 
Could you beam into the nexus from a nearby ship or planet?

The nexus plot point was full of holes. Someone here recently posted a detailed list of the problems.

As for Picard's nexus, I wish Beverly had been his wife and Wes his son in the Christmas scene.
 
Either Moore or Braga bring up the point that they're watching the movie on a small screen while doing the commentary. So they may not have seen the Duras sisters too clearly. I like how they rag on the extra who pumps his fist right before Spiner as Data does.
 
canadaboy_32 said:
And as for the Duras sisters, they are two different actresses! Is it so hard to look at imdb.com or something and see which actress played what to get it right?
All right; I'm always eager to learn. What's a line that is distinctly Lursa, that sets her character apart from Betor? ``My name is Lursa'' doesn't count; it has to be something where we actually see what kind of person she is, and that makes her distinct from the other.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top