Generations (spoilers)

[Kronos]

jon1701 said:
Memo to all Trekbbs Departments:

Generations does not make sense.

Sure it does, Kirk is in the Nexus having adventures, everything after him entering it never happens in reality

 

[Kegek]

Nebusj said:
Picard does ask Data why Soran doesn't just fly a ship in, and Data says that every ship which approached was severely damaged or destroyed in the attempt.

I know. Frankly, that's why the plot point bugs me, there's a half-hearted attempt to address it in dialogue. Picard and Data actually did have enough available evidence to realise something was screwy here, but the plot mechanics wouldn't allow for it. Allow me to write a little dialogue by way of demostration:

Picard: But how did Soran get into the Nexus originally?
Data: On a starship.
Picard: Then why won't he use a starship?
Data: Because all starships that have approached the Nexus have been destroyed or severely damaged.
Picard: What happened to the starship he used to first get into the Nexus?
Data: It was destroyed.
Picard: So, if he first got into the Nexus through a starship that was destroyed, why would he not attempt to use a starship again?
Data: Because all starships that have approached the Nexus have been destroyed or severely damaged.
Picard: (sighs) What, is he worried it might only be severely damaged this time?

They don't know about Kirk or Guinan's echo or even what the Nexus is, but they do know the one way Soran got in... is the one way Soran can't get in. And they gloss over that as if it's the most obvious conclusion in the world.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I haven't seen ST:G in over a decade, but I faintly recall somebody babbling on about "dangerous gravimetric distortions" during the opening sequence aboard the NCC-1701-B. Assuming that these are analogous to gravitational tidal forces, Soran should have been able to enter the Nexus rather easily via a TMP-style spacesuit/thrusterpack combo as the difference in apparent gravitational potential across the length of a human(oid) body would obviously be so much less than across the length of a starship hull. After all, neither Soran not Picard appeared to suffer so much as a mussed eyebrow during their induction into the Nexus from the surface of Veridian III.

TGT

 

[Timo]

Consider that (by the known schedule of the Nexus transits) Soran has already tried this once, and failed. Each reattempt requires 40 years of waiting, and despite being El-Aurian, Soran won't live forever. And he really has zero incentive to be tactful about what he does. So if going in using a thruster suit gives 98.2% odds and using a ship gives 68%, he might just as well spend the four decades perfecting a plan that gives 99.999% odds.

It is only the quick dismissal by our heroes of all the more humane plans that creates a plot hole. Surely it would be a persuasive argument if Picard could tell Soran "Don't blow up this star, man, we can give you a ride in there instead if that's what you want". (Soran could then counter with "I want 99.999% odds, not 68%", as he would plausibly think in those terms, but Picard should not start out with that kind of logic!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Timo said:
Consider that (by the known schedule of the Nexus transits) Soran has already tried this once, and failed.

If by "this" you mean a thruster suit penetration of the Nexus, I don't recall Soran mentioning a failed attempt to Picard or anybody else.

Each reattempt requires 40 years of waiting, and despite being El-Aurian, Soran won't live forever.

What stopped Soran from stealing a starship and taking off after the Nexus so he could attempt as many thruster-suit entries as required for success? If Soran was willing to commit genocide on a planetary scale as an incidental element of his plan to alter the Nexus' trajectory, then I don't think that a potential charge of Grand Theft Spacecraft and subsequent rehab sessions would cause him too much lost sleep. Besides, aren't stasis field chambers shown to be a generally mature and widespread technology by the 24th century (your knowledge of DS9 and VOY vastly exceeds mine) thus making the question of longevity relatively moot?

TGT

 

[Timo]

Sorry, I meant a more generic "this" there, for "tried this once". And yes, it's all guesswork. We know the Nexus zips around on a 40-year schedule, and we know Soran really, really wants to go there, so it's fairly likely that he already tried it on the previous lap - supposedly using some other technique than the one shown. He wouldn't go all Rube Goldberg without trying out something simple first, most probably a re-enactment of the original accident. And if he found out that the method didn't work reliably enough, he'd also start to pay attention to the evident problems of getting out of a failed attempt alive.

As regards chasing the Nexus, this is one of the more annoying/intriguing things about the movie. How fast does that thing move, and along which sort of a trajectory? Our TNG heroes think it goes outside the galaxy on each lap, yet it seems every encounter takes place while the Nexus is sublight in the shallows.

Mightn't the speed of the phenomenon be highly variable, only slowing down to interceptable when very close to a star or other such massive object? Something like that might actually be expected on basis of the fact that slight changes in gravity seem to have rather significant effect on the ribbon. The associated babble on "gravimetric distortions" being endemic to the Nexus would also fit nicely in...

As for using suspended animation in criminal schemes, Dr Evil might have a word or two of advice on that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

T'Cal said:We also learn that Soran's wife and two children were killed by the Borg while on the El Aurian homeworld. Grief-stricken, Soran leaves with the other refugees on the Lakul. When it gets too close to the nexus, the people on board are pulled into and then ripped out of the nexus, which is how it was described by Scotty on the E-B. While there in the nexus for a brief time, Soran is reunited with his family and everything is perfect in his universe again

As well as what Mark Boeder said, this would be far more interesting a movie, I'd cut every bit of Data's new emotions to have such a "villain".