Well, yeah, and it would have killedd the rest of the movie.
But they could have at least acknowledged the possibility.
"Sorry, sir -- it's not responding!"
or,
"Sorry, sir, but we're in its path and there's no way to reorient!"
That kind of thing.
generations question
- Thread starter BlackFire3
- Start date
Well, yeah, and it would have killedd the rest of the movie.
But they could have at least acknowledged the possibility.
"Sorry, sir -- it's not responding!"
or,
"Sorry, sir, but we're in its path and there's no way to reorient!"
That kind of thing.
of course, if this were literally true, there'd be no need to individually charge and court martial officers, right?
I mean, if a lieutenant were charged with insubordination toward a captain, they'd have to charge the captain himself for the insubordination since he's responsible for the lieutenant's actions, right?
that was taken to the absurd to show that you guys are taking the "captain responsible" thing way too literally, just as Star Trek VI did.
yes, the captain's responsible for what goes on on the ship, but not literally responsible for the individual decisions and conduct of members of the crew when he's light-years away doing something else.
^ IRL, no CO (that I know of, at least, or have worked for) would EVER let that sort of situation arise.
He (or She) would never let themselves be "light-years away" from THEIR ship, because they know they're responsible for everyone onboard, as well as the ship's well-being.
Also, I think you would find (forgot where it was mentioned up-thread) both Riker and Picard being taken court martial, but each for different reasons/charges, IRL. Just IMO, though.
Cheers,
-CM-
He (or She) would never let themselves be "light-years away" from THEIR ship, because they know they're responsible for everyone onboard, as well as the ship's well-being.
Also, I think you would find (forgot where it was mentioned up-thread) both Riker and Picard being taken court martial, but each for different reasons/charges, IRL. Just IMO, though.
Cheers,
-CM-
The whole fight in Generations manages to be an epic fail, not working very well whether you're a dedicated fan or a casual film goer.
If you're the former then you'll be shouting at the screen one of the 80 000 ways shown in the TV show that could be used to get round this. "Change the frequency! Eject the core!" and so on. If you're in the second group, you've been told on screen the Klingon ship is crap and the Enterprise is awesome, so them getting their arses handed to them so utterly is just going to see stupid.
As for court martials, I always liked the bit in one of the Shatner books (the one with the Borg? Before Shat's world started to go really insane anyway) where a Romulan sarcastically suggests that knowing Star Fleet they likely just apologised to him for giving him a sub standard ship.
If you're the former then you'll be shouting at the screen one of the 80 000 ways shown in the TV show that could be used to get round this. "Change the frequency! Eject the core!" and so on. If you're in the second group, you've been told on screen the Klingon ship is crap and the Enterprise is awesome, so them getting their arses handed to them so utterly is just going to see stupid.
As for court martials, I always liked the bit in one of the Shatner books (the one with the Borg? Before Shat's world started to go really insane anyway) where a Romulan sarcastically suggests that knowing Star Fleet they likely just apologised to him for giving him a sub standard ship.
^ IRL, no CO (that I know of, at least, or have worked for) would EVER let that sort of situation arise.
He (or She) would never let themselves be "light-years away" from THEIR ship, because they know they're responsible for everyone onboard, as well as the ship's well-being.
Also, I think you would find (forgot where it was mentioned up-thread) both Riker and Picard being taken court martial, but each for different reasons/charges, IRL. Just IMO, though.
Cheers,
-CM-
yes, in the real world captains don't leave their ships while that ship is in the middle of a mission. But we're talking about Star Trek where Kirk did it all the time, and Picard did it but a lot less often.
Again, you seem to be attributing God-like powers to COs. In the military, there are still tons of acts of misconduct done by subordinates for which they are personally punished, not the COs.
In fact, there's often a phenomenon of "kicking it down the line," where things that are a CO or high-ranking officer's fault are blamed on someone lower in the chain of command.
^ IRL, no CO (that I know of, at least, or have worked for) would EVER let that sort of situation arise.
He (or She) would never let themselves be "light-years away" from THEIR ship, because they know they're responsible for everyone onboard, as well as the ship's well-being.
Also, I think you would find (forgot where it was mentioned up-thread) both Riker and Picard being taken court martial, but each for different reasons/charges, IRL. Just IMO, though.
Cheers,
-CM-
yes, in the real world captains don't leave their ships while that ship is in the middle of a mission. But we're talking about Star Trek where Kirk did it all the time, and Picard did it but a lot less often.
Again, you seem to be attributing God-like powers to COs. In the military, there are still tons of acts of misconduct done by subordinates for which they are personally punished, not the COs.
In fact, there's often a phenomenon of "kicking it down the line," where things that are a CO or high-ranking officer's fault are blamed on someone lower in the chain of command.
COs might not get "punished" but they seem to get reassigned pretty quick after a subordinate screws the pooch.
^ Exactly.
Also, acts of misconduct by subordinates ARE punished by the CO's, via NJP (Non Judicial Punishment) or (if necessary because of the level of misconduct or requested by the misconductee) referral to court martial.
Also, a CO would/can get relieved of command by the simple fact of there either being too much NJP being administered, or not enough... via word of mouth, basically.
Let's face it -- onboard a ship, the Commanding Officer IS God, to be honest. To a certain point, of course.
Cheers,
-CM-
Also, acts of misconduct by subordinates ARE punished by the CO's, via NJP (Non Judicial Punishment) or (if necessary because of the level of misconduct or requested by the misconductee) referral to court martial.
Also, a CO would/can get relieved of command by the simple fact of there either being too much NJP being administered, or not enough... via word of mouth, basically.
Let's face it -- onboard a ship, the Commanding Officer IS God, to be honest. To a certain point, of course.
Cheers,
-CM-
I almost wish Rick was a member here so you would get a warning for flaming. Seriously, that is just uncalled for. The man may have let Trek get diluted and bland in the last few years but he also guided the franchise through its greatest years.
As for Ron Moore, he is quite a talented writer. He provided some of the very best TNG and DS9 had to offer. If you go back and read the transcripts of his AOL chats you will see that he was very engaging with fans as well as honest about the state of his own work.
If you listen to the Generations commentary track, both Moore and Braga are completely upfront about what went wrong with the movie and they take all the responsibility. They had a near-impossible task. The studio demanded they 1) Bring Kirk and Picard together; 2) Kill Kirk; and 3) Destroy the 1701-D. They did a serviceable, though not admirable job of all three, and they readily admit it.
They could have brought about the destruction of the Enterprise in a better way, but the choice to do it in the first place did not belong with the writers, and it certainly was not done out of some sort of hubris or arrogance.
I thought he was a member?
That is absolutely tame compared to some of the things I've seem him called on these forums.
My understanding is that they did use a physical model for the Enterprise-E in First Contact. It was not until Insurrection that it was replaced by CGI.
Okay, in discussing First Contact Memory Alpha confirms there was a model built:
Are you kidding? Rick Berman SAVED TNG when he took over from Roddenberry. DS9 was the most epic Trek ever, and even Voyager was a lot better than given credit for. It was the misguided idea that a prequel series would draw in a large enough audience that nearly killed Star Trek.
There seems to be some revisionism going on about Rick Berman "saving" TNG. TNG was already a highly-rated syndication show when he inherited the reins from Roddenberry. TNG's ratings continued to climb under his stewardship but all the other spin-offs bled viewers pretty consistently.
Rick Berman took over something that was already successful and helped it remain successful. How successful the efforts spearheaded by Berman were can be debated.
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TNG's most successful years (seasons four to seven, possibly even earlier) had Berman at the helm! Roddenberry was in control during seasons one and two, which happened to be the least popular seaons.
Let's not forget that Roddenberry along with Gerrold, Fontana and Justman created TNG. Berman was an awesome production guy but his creative input can be easily questioned.
Personally, seasons one and two are my favorites. But that's beside the point.
You just don't know whether the ratings would've continued to grow under other show runners. Quite frankly, season three was when a blanket of "blandness" began to descend on the show. It went from big, fun space adventure to LA Law in Space.
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Er, no. That's like saying you can resurrect George Washington and put him in the White House in 2012 and he'll be just fine.
Really? Can you provide examples of Geordi's incompetence, disrespectfulness and obsolescence in any other episode of TNG other than the one you seem to have a blatantly huge bias against? (and, by the way, the word you didn't bother to check the spelling of is "inadequate." And you spelled obsolete wrong.)
To be fair to the other spinoffs, Trek wasn't the only sci-fi game in town in the late 90s. DS9 was incredibly well-written, IMO.
I have an idea....
I think it was on the checklist of things to do given to them by the studio. Can't sell toy replicas of the new Enterprise until they got rid of the old one.
Yeah, I think I remember hearing that too. Doesn't change my feeling that it was stupid though.
I also believe they both said that they wanted to do it, although how accurate that is, I couldn't say.
If memory of the commentary serves, they talk about how there was talk of destroying the -D during TNG's run as a season ender. Obviously, that got overturned.
Also, I seem to remember some claim that the -D was designed to be shot for a television screen and wouldn't work all that well with movie-framing. I don't fully understand this argument, but then I am not knowledge in the arena (assuming, of course, if I am remembering this correctly).
I have a question...first of all, why did they delete the Geordi torture scene, and second, when Riker gives the command to fire on the bird of prey, only one photon torpedo is launched even though he said they'd need a spread of photon torpedoes. I read from someone that when the movie was in the theater, Riker actually said fire 5 times. That's one part of the movie that I don't recall him saying. Does anyone else remember that??
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