generations question
- Thread starter BlackFire3
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It was the very first sequence filmed with the new shoulder-flap uniforms they ended up replacing with DS9 uniforms. They did intend to return to that set and reshoot the sequence, but decided it wasn't really needed. Then, of course, they couldn't use it in any extended cut because Geordi is wearing the wrong uniform (below).
Playmates uniform comparison by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Worf in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" Seasons 3-7 uniform, Data and LaForge in the unused "Generations" movie uniforms and O'Brien in "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" uniform.
I have that version of the Playmates Data as well
It was the very first sequence filmed with the new shoulder-flap uniforms they ended up replacing with DS9 uniforms. They did intend to return to that set and reshoot the sequence, but decided it wasn't really needed. Then, of course, they couldn't use it in any extended cut because Geordi is wearing the wrong uniform (below).
Playmates uniform comparison by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Worf in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" Seasons 3-7 uniform, Data and LaForge in the unused "Generations" movie uniforms and O'Brien in "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" uniform.
I really like the unused uniform design.
It was the very first sequence filmed with the new shoulder-flap uniforms they ended up replacing with DS9 uniforms. They did intend to return to that set and reshoot the sequence, but decided it wasn't really needed. Then, of course, they couldn't use it in any extended cut because Geordi is wearing the wrong uniform (below).
Playmates uniform comparison by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Worf in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" Seasons 3-7 uniform, Data and LaForge in the unused "Generations" movie uniforms and O'Brien in "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" uniform.
I did happen to see that deleted scene where LaForge is wearing the unused uniform, but the quality is so bad that it's hard to see a good and clear picture of it. I also like the style of the new uniform. I read that that scene where he's in the uniform did make it on the first release of the theater, but I don't recall seeing it, but the torture scene was in the movie. I also read recently that during the last part of the saucer crash, there is a scene where Worf looks at a saddened Troi in some what of an acknowledgement of their relationship and at that same time, Riker looks over to Troi and sees them looking at each other and there was supposed to be a hint of jealousy in Riker's eyes when he saw that the relationship was still on between Worf and Troi. But apparently that was also cut from the DVD. That's kind of funny.
Let it also be realized that starting in the middle of season 5 of TNG there started to be more less than likable episodes than good ones. This is about the point where Roddenberry dies - and according to everyone he did have a lot of obnoxious pull, allowing some things and heavily fighting others. The second he's gone we get Generations, DS9, Troi/Worf romances, Alexander on the ship full time, Data trying to kill people every other episode, personal problems trumping the action oriented plots, and every other crappy thing that followed.
I accept that Gene was a greedy fuddy duddy with delusions of grandeur and that his team was past their prime (especailly Gerrold who only ever half wrote one script) but he had a knack of creating good ensembles and group dynamics and had influence enough to keep the show on a proper track. He was not George Lucas.
You mean this deleted torture scene? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3LHFlUbvA8
Geordi is topless throughout all the missing torture scenes, so I don't think it has much to do with the uniform.
I'd hardly call DS9 crappy. IMO it was ultimately a better series than TNG. Generations didn't follow for at least three years, and Alexander was hardly on the show full-time; specifically he appeared in 8 episodes of the entire series. Data trying to kill people...I'm sorry, what show were you watching again?
Your flair for hyperbole is dramatically undermining your credibility I'm afraid.
Except that nobody really wanted to watch it except die-hard fans - and even they dwindled every year. I know a lot of nerds and a lot of trekkies and I've yet to meet anyone in meat-space who watched DS9 all the way to the end. I seem to have committed to the show the longest (half way through season 6). It was a show that didn't know what it wanted to be and was bogged down with forced conflicts, forced romances (like Troi and Worf), and Klingons that just kept getting dumber.
Huh?
Which is eight more than he should have been in and is a big chunk of the remaining seasons. And just count how many child centric episodes there were in season 5 onward. Disaster, New Ground, Hero Worship, Cost of Living, Imaginary Friend, Rascals, Fistful of Datas. You'd think Ron Moore, et al who thought it was dumb to have kids on a ship would have just stopped writing about them instead of writing bad plots about how dumb it is to have kids on a ship.
Power Play, Fistful of Datas, The Quality of Life, Descent, Phantasms, Masks, Insurrection. It became an over done trope to make Data rogue and/or dangerous much to the detriment of the character (the more you make him capable of malice the more it makes sense to just turn so powerful and capable of murder off).
Don't be afraid. Nothing is being undermined or overmined here.
Then allow me to introduce myself.
*reaches to shake hands*
Incidentally, what exactly is "meat space"?
This has nothing to do with a question or anything, but I was roaming the halls of the internet and found a website that had a lot of info on Star Trek Generations and it tells of a version of the script where Data has a chance to experience his new emotions in different ways...it reads like this...The script even went as far as giving Data a sexual encounter with the Duras sisters after which he proceeds to inform the crew that he's begun negotiations with the Klingon sisters just as his arm falls off from the physical strain of his sexual experience with the Klingon women. Based on the director and the actor's notes the script made a series of changes which allowed the character to get an opportunity to experience the human condition through bouts of confusion, anger, fear, and even guilt. Along with the reward that comes from the gift of emotion, Data discovers that there are also consequences. I read that and just thought it was hilarious!! http://treknostalgia.blogspot.com/2009/04/star-trek-generations-15th-anniversary.html
It was the very first sequence filmed with the new shoulder-flap uniforms they ended up replacing with DS9 uniforms. They did intend to return to that set and reshoot the sequence, but decided it wasn't really needed. Then, of course, they couldn't use it in any extended cut because Geordi is wearing the wrong uniform (below).
Playmates uniform comparison by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Worf in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" Seasons 3-7 uniform, Data and LaForge in the unused "Generations" movie uniforms and O'Brien in "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" uniform.
I always found the TNG cast a bit stiff, but in that photo -- wow!
I may be repeating an already asked question, but I was watching Generations last night and a few things dawned on me. When Picard went back thru time with Kirk on Veridian III to stop Soran, shouldn't there be 2 Picards on that planet?? Also when Picard tells Soran that they can find another way of getting him into the Nexus instead of blowing up a star, Soran says that there is no other way. Couldn't they just fly near or into it with a ship?? I mean I know that same question is asked in the movie, but how did Soran originally get into the Nexus??? He was on a starship, correct??
first question: it depends on how Trek treats time travel. Under certain interpretations, there probably would be. But it robs the movie of the need for Kirk if future Picard just fights alongside past Picard.
second question: yes, it's a story flaw, but you can rationalize it because the ship Soran was on when he first went into the Nexus was destroyed, so he might have thought it would've been a gamble as to whether a ship flying into the Nexus directly would be destroyed before the passengers could be transported into the Nexus.
Interesting. I've never heard it called that before.
When the Enterprise B picked up a distress call from the El-Aurian transport ships and they transported as many refugees as they can, why then would the Federation not know about the Borg? I mean it's established that the Federation had no idea who the Borg where until the 24th century, but it's also established that these El-Aurian refugees are being relocated due to the Borg destroying their home world when the Enterprise B helped them. So shouldn't we then know about the Borg at that time which was the 23rd century? Can anyone explain that one to me?? You may win a prize if you do! 
Based on my understanding of DS9's ratings, that's an exaggeration. It didn't have GREAT ratings and didn't live up to TNG (which the show runners had specifically hoped it would), but the ratings weren't actually bad for a syndicated show, especially given the factors running against it, which included much more televised sci-fi competition than TNG ever had to deal with, lackluster marketing from Paramount, and having to be the only Trek show that ALWAYS ran concurrently with another. And critically, it was quite successful: TV Guide, for example, called it the best overall Trek series when it had concluded.
TROI and Worf? Typo?
The problem with you using this as supposed "evidence" that Gene Roddenberry's passing (and Rick Berman taking over) was a bad thing for Trek is that everything in this paragraph is pure opinion. YOU may think those things, but others (such as myself, and others in this thread) don't.
And... dumber Klingons? As time went ON? I will submit that what I'm about to say is technically also opinion, but I'm flummoxed by the notion of season 5-7 Martok being considered "dumb" when compared to the much more simplistic Klingons in both TOS and TNG.
3 years from season 5. This is when Gene died, as you pointed out, and when in your view everything went down the crapper.
Eight EPISODES out of the entirety of seasons 4-7 is not "a big chunk." That's eight episodes out of one-hundred and three.
You're pretty much busted here.
Child centric episodes in seasons 1-3: "Justice", "When the Bough Breaks", "Coming of Age", "The Child", "The Dauphin", "Evolution", "The Bonding". That's seven vs. seven. So no, the later seasons didn't have more child-centric eps than the earlier seasons. And of course, some of my examples starred the infamous Wesley Crusher, a character created by Roddenberry, and one whose most egregious, most annoying, most mary-sue-ish moments came in the first couple of seasons, when Roddenberry's creative influence over the show was at its absolute highest. Not to mention that he came up with the idea of families and children being carried aboard Galaxy-class ships in the first place, didn't he?
Gene Roddenberry HIMSELF was the biggest reason that all the child-centric crap (and I DO agree that most of it is crap) exists in TNG as a whole.
Ron Moore had NOTHING TO DO with any of those eps, except for "Disaster", for which he wrote the teleplay only (and it BARELY qualifies as "child-centric", since the children were only involved in one of four ongoing sub-plots on the ship). Incidentally, he also wrote "The Bonding", which was one of my s1-3 examples of a child-centric ep, but that makes two (one and a half, really) "child-centric eps" he was involved in, out of twenty-seven eps in TNG that he was involved in (and he even threw a "there shouldn't even BE children on this ship!" rant for Picard into "The Bonding".)
Power Play doesn't count, since two other characters were also possessed, and the ep made it QUITE clear that anyone would have been possessed had they been there (Riker wasn't only because he was injured). That Data is who he is, that he is an android, had no bearing on what happened. I would also submit that "The Quality of Life" isn't fair, because again, him BEING an android didn't endanger the ship. He did something he felt was right (and let's not forget Picard agreed at the end), but it was something that would not have been out of character for an organic life form to do (assuming, of course, that the Exocomps were changed in such a scenario to not be robotic, so that the organic in question would feel the same kinship Data felt).
That said... I agree with you on your base premise here. "Data threatens the ship" was grossly overused in TNG, and is one of the major failings of that show (and I say this as someone who loves the show overall).
Yes! Yes I can!When the Enterprise B picked up a distress call from the El-Aurian transport ships and they transported as many refugees as they can, why then would the Federation not know about the Borg? I mean it's established that the Federation had no idea who the Borg where until the 24th century, but it's also established that these El-Aurian refugees are being relocated due to the Borg destroying their home world when the Enterprise B helped them. So shouldn't we then know about the Borg at that time which was the 23rd century? Can anyone explain that one to me?? You may win a prize if you do!
...lazy writing. Sorry, that's all I got.
Seriously, I actually like GEN, but I like it despite knowing it's got a bucketload of plot holes and problems (though really, so do all of the Trek films).
The two biggest problems in the movie IMO, are the Nexus and all the myriad plot holes it created, and the weak manner in which the Ent-D went down (my favorite Enterprise!
).
Troi and Worf became an item not long after "Parallels" revealed to Worf that he was with Deanna in several alternate universes. The relationship was a crucial plot point in "All Good Things..."
More likely David Gerrold, who also suggested Lesley Crusher, a girl, as a main character. It was Roddenberry who suggested that Wesley, Riker and Picard might represent himself at various stages of his own life.
But it's not established that they were recent victims of the Borg. Maybe El-Auria was attacked much earlier - maybe when Guinan was on Earth, or even before?
But it's not established that they were recent victims of the Borg. Maybe El-Auria was attacked much earlier - maybe when Guinan was on Earth, or even before?[/QUOTE]
Ok, but I don't think if it was something planned or not would make any difference. If someone needed to stay at my house for the night, I ask why as does, I think, most everyone else.. The Federation really should have been told who the Borg are...etc..
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