Generations plot hole
- Thread starter TiberiusK
- Start date
I'm afraid you've hit on one of those topics that's been beaten to death around here, and some may choose to jump in and point that out to you in a not-so-polite fashion. Which I don't understand, but seems to be the norm around here when recurring topics are brought up. Just some fair warning.
As to your question, you're right that it's one of the biggest plot holes in Generations. I suppose one could argue that Picard was worried about messing up the timeline or somesuch by going back too far but, then again, if he was that concerned about the timeline, he would have stayed in the Nexus, since that's what the original timeline was. Also, if he comes out on Veridian III before Soran fires the weapon, then shouldn't there be two Picards there now?
Writers Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga have pretty much openly admitted that this is one of many plot holes, both large and small, in Generations. They've been quite frank about the laundry list of items they were given by the studio to include and make work together in the film, and the fact that the finished product was not at all what they hoped it would be. They were much happier to be given a clean slate in First Contact.
As to your question, you're right that it's one of the biggest plot holes in Generations. I suppose one could argue that Picard was worried about messing up the timeline or somesuch by going back too far but, then again, if he was that concerned about the timeline, he would have stayed in the Nexus, since that's what the original timeline was. Also, if he comes out on Veridian III before Soran fires the weapon, then shouldn't there be two Picards there now?
Writers Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga have pretty much openly admitted that this is one of many plot holes, both large and small, in Generations. They've been quite frank about the laundry list of items they were given by the studio to include and make work together in the film, and the fact that the finished product was not at all what they hoped it would be. They were much happier to be given a clean slate in First Contact.
I think there are enough plot holes to qualify Kirk for resurrection. :P
One fairly good reason for Picard to try and arrest Soran on the surface of the planet, and not a moment earlier:
It wasn't just Soran that needed to be apprehended. Picard also had to get the Duras sisters, who (as far as he knew) had been given starkiller weapons by Soran for use against the Federation. To arrest Soran when his whereabouts were first known (while he was working on the Armagosa observatory) would not allow for the arrest of the sisters. OTOH, while Soran was down on Veridian, the Duras-Duras were (again, as far as Picard knew) safely under the guns of the E-D.
As long as we're discussing Capt. Picard and not Capt. Braxton, there's also the procedural point of arresting Soran for something he hasn't done yet. It would appear that Amargosa was the first star he blew up, and the first crime against the Federation that he committed. (He had already stolen/swindled some trilithium from the Romulans, but the Feds would probably give him a medal for that. And would it really be illegal to build secret chambers into observatories, even for potentially nefarious purposes?)
Timo Saloniemi
It wasn't just Soran that needed to be apprehended. Picard also had to get the Duras sisters, who (as far as he knew) had been given starkiller weapons by Soran for use against the Federation. To arrest Soran when his whereabouts were first known (while he was working on the Armagosa observatory) would not allow for the arrest of the sisters. OTOH, while Soran was down on Veridian, the Duras-Duras were (again, as far as Picard knew) safely under the guns of the E-D.
As long as we're discussing Capt. Picard and not Capt. Braxton, there's also the procedural point of arresting Soran for something he hasn't done yet. It would appear that Amargosa was the first star he blew up, and the first crime against the Federation that he committed. (He had already stolen/swindled some trilithium from the Romulans, but the Feds would probably give him a medal for that. And would it really be illegal to build secret chambers into observatories, even for potentially nefarious purposes?)
Timo Saloniemi
You'll get no complaints from me on this one. Even my 14 year old brain grasped that one as I walked out of the theater.
Return from the Nexus when Soran boards the ship and arrest him. You'll avoid cosmic destruction and the loss of the Enterprise this way.
It wouldn't be the first time Picard asserted his authority based on events that took place out of normal space and time. (AGT being the prime example.)
You'd also have no need for Kirk in the capacity he served in this scenario though.
My assumption is that the Nexus can't send you anywhere in real time and space, only to places that are physically proximate to it. Picard couldn't go back much earlier because the Nexus wouldn't have been close enough to the Veridian system or the Enterprise at that earlier time.
As for the issue of the Nexus destroying ships that get close despite Soran being able to get in the first time, I figure that it was a major fluke that he was able to survive long enough -- that the odds were about 99 percent that a ship would be torn apart by the turbulence before it got close enough for its crew to get sucked in. So in order to be sure, Soran needed to be on a planet, something massive and sturdy enough to withstand the turbulence.
But if we're talking about plot holes, how about the infinite speed of light and gravity in the movie? The courses of starships and the Nexus are instantaneously altered as soon as Amargosa blows up -- which shouldn't happen anyway, because all the mass of Amargosa is still there and is expanding from its barycenter at well below the speed of light, so a distant observer would not measure any significant change in the mass distribution for decades. Well, I can chalk that up to some kind of FTL "ripples" passing through subspace, affecting things with a subspace component like starships or the Nexus.
But the speed of light is still apparently infinite, since once Soran launches the missile into the sun, it's only seconds before Picard and Soran see the sun exploding. If Veridian III is at an Earthlike distance from its sun, it should take around 8 minutes for the light to get there. So did they just cut out the part where Picard and Soran sat around doing nothing for 8 minutes because they knew there was nothing more they could do?
As for the issue of the Nexus destroying ships that get close despite Soran being able to get in the first time, I figure that it was a major fluke that he was able to survive long enough -- that the odds were about 99 percent that a ship would be torn apart by the turbulence before it got close enough for its crew to get sucked in. So in order to be sure, Soran needed to be on a planet, something massive and sturdy enough to withstand the turbulence.
But if we're talking about plot holes, how about the infinite speed of light and gravity in the movie? The courses of starships and the Nexus are instantaneously altered as soon as Amargosa blows up -- which shouldn't happen anyway, because all the mass of Amargosa is still there and is expanding from its barycenter at well below the speed of light, so a distant observer would not measure any significant change in the mass distribution for decades. Well, I can chalk that up to some kind of FTL "ripples" passing through subspace, affecting things with a subspace component like starships or the Nexus.
But the speed of light is still apparently infinite, since once Soran launches the missile into the sun, it's only seconds before Picard and Soran see the sun exploding. If Veridian III is at an Earthlike distance from its sun, it should take around 8 minutes for the light to get there. So did they just cut out the part where Picard and Soran sat around doing nothing for 8 minutes because they knew there was nothing more they could do?
Outside of the fact that Guinan said he could go anywhere, your theory still doesn't work as Kirk "just arrived" in the Nexus as well. If what you said was true, Kirk wouldn't have been able to go to Veridian 3, because from his point of view, he would only be able to go back to the Enterprise-B.
Generations is riddle with plot holes big enough for a Galaxy-class starship to sail through.
You want Soren arrested before he's committed any crime?
What evidence does Picard have to hold him, other than "I'm from the future and he's guilty"?
