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"Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" or "Star Trek: Generations"?

Which is better?

  • Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

    Votes: 38 52.1%
  • Star Trek: Generations

    Votes: 35 47.9%

  • Total voters
    73
I do think TFF is quite a bit better although they are pretty different kinds of films-aside from having a lot of at least somewhat weird-feeling humor and many people think overall weird stories with underwhelming climaxes. Though neither bad, TFF I think works in a lot better its humor and its overall plot progression including how it leads to its climax.

This exactly. For a movie that's intended to launch a film series, Generations is positively funereal. What it feels like is a finale

It had to be, feel introductory enough while also not boring, still advancing those who had watched the series and wanted further progression from, and some conclusion to, it and I think it does work pretty well at being both.

First Contact is just bad and ruined the Borg.

Really don't see how it's a bad or weakening depiction or even if it was, how any appearance after "The Best of Both Worlds" would not be a weakening depiction.

Who and what exactly was that being that pretended to be God? Why is any of this happening?

I think the climax and twist does come pretty close to, still work as basically being Shatner's original idea, the entity can pretty easily be interpreted as instead devil or demon or just, similar enough, real powerful but malevolent entity. And I think it does work for that, that faith and/or obedience isn't necessarily good, can result in bad.
 
Really don't see how it's a bad or weakening depiction or even if it was, how any appearance after "The Best of Both Worlds" would not be a weakening depiction.
It makes the Queen too myopic and obsessive. It reduces the unfeeling, almost mechanical drive, to assimilate to one of passion and human excess.




More on topic, Generations feels extremely non-committal towards either story. You have Kirk and a couple former crew mates show up and then they're gone. Then we start on the holodeck and try to wrap in several plot lines from TNG in to a film that started off about Kirk sacrificing himself.

The way the Enterprise D goes out is awful.

It's a lot of disconnected strings that ultimately doesn't sell me on new adventures with the TNG crew.
 
The bad guys succeeding just due to spying from unwilling Geordi was a bad part of the film, the bad guys being more actually impressive, both them and the Enterprise crew being more impressive with the ship still being destroyed (but the crew still being impressive for still surviving) would have been a better way to start new cast series.
 
Of the few things Generations does ABSOLUTELY right, it NAILS the poignancy of ruminating in Final Frontier on Kirk's future-death. "I've always known. ... I'll die alone". Because, by every humanistic/philosophical measure, a man could not be further separated from humanity, than to be stranded in a time not his own.
 
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Oh, and in celebration of Generations' 30th Anniversary, I updated my Generations Blu Ray cover art ...

star_trek_generations_blu_ray___30th_anniversary_by_oilcangfx_dilapks-pre.jpg
 
I have a fondness for TFF. Always have. I think the basic story that Shatner wanted to tell was flawed, and it reinforces my theory that the actors should never have any involvement with the writing. Ever. But, that said, I think the script they came up with was decent for what it was, and gave us some really good character moments. As others have observed, I think the "big three" are captured better than any other movie here.

Also, having criticized Shatner for his writing, I would praise him for his directing. I actually think he is a good director. In fact, I think he's better than Nimoy. He shot TFF like a movie, not like a glorified TV episode. Special effects aside, the film just looks good. I love the bridge from TFF, the Nimbus III and Sha Ka Rhee footage is very well done, etc.

For me, the biggest problem is in the producing and the fact that they didn't do a good job spending money. They spend a lot of time and money capturing things that aren't essential to the film -- like going up to Yosemite so we can see Kirk fall off a mountain or building a full-size shuttle bay set for scenes that could really have been handled anywhere -- and instead end up sacrificing the ending of the film for not having enough money.

All-in-all, though, I like the film.

Generations is, to me, also very uneven but leans more in the other direction, where I just don't care for it. It has some good moments, but not many. The Data comedy runner is just absolutely painful. We didn't need to kick off a TNG film series by offing Picard's family and having him in a deep depression through most of the story. And, I'm sorry, I know I'm in the minority, but I can't stand the way the Enterprise interiors look in this film. I much preferred the TNG series bridge to the movie variant. I hate, hate, hate the lighting. Cinematic my butt. Turn on a light, for goodness sake. And then the scuttling of the ship, while a well done sequence, was totally unnecessary and detrimental, IMHO. And then let's not even begin to explore the plot holes or the fact that our epic meeting of the two captains was Kirk cooking breakfast.

TL;DR: TFF over GEN any day.
 
Shartner even said later that he didn't like the way Kirk died and just saying "Oh my" as his last words.
I read somewhere that the 'oh my' thing had something to do with SHatner's feelings about Kirk dying. I agree that it's silly, though, that his last words are just... 'oh my'.
 
Roddenberry Archive interview recently -- said it was his idea. He was tryign to think of what Kirk might say, something like he saw Heaven or the afterlife, "Oh my..."
 
The original final scripted line from Kirk was his "it was fun" line. Shatner has said he added the "oh my" line as a way of attempting to show Kirk seeing a glimpse of what was next in the afterlife. But he has admitted the delivery did not come off well. Personally, I think the "it was fun" line would have been much better to end on and more appropriate for the Kirk character. Regardless, though, I'd never have been happy with his death in that film. It just comes across as so pointless and forced.
 
I voted for Generations, but this thread is really making me reconsider that.

I don't particularly care for either of them, though. Both have elements I quite like, both have strong villain performances, both have a sense of humor that does not work for me.

Still, after reading through all this discussion I want to revisit them, so I must not dislike either that much.
 
I don't particularly care for either of them, though. Both have elements I quite like, both have strong villain performances, both have a sense of humor that does not work for me.
Really? I think Luckinbill did a phenomenal job as Sybok, but I always thought Soran was a pretty weak villain. McDowell did fine with what he was given, but I never thought it was a particularly great performance or memorable role.
 
Really? I think Luckinbill did a phenomenal job as Sybok, but I always thought Soran was a pretty weak villain. McDowell did fine with what he was given, but I never thought it was a particularly great performance or memorable role.
I definitely preferred him on heroes a few years later.
 
Really? I think Luckinbill did a phenomenal job as Sybok, but I always thought Soran was a pretty weak villain. McDowell did fine with what he was given, but I never thought it was a particularly great performance or memorable role.
TBF Ceridwen said strong villain performances, not strong villains. There is a difference.

For instance, I thought F. Murray Abraham did the best he could with what he was given. Anyone who's seen Amadeus knows what he's capable of, but Ru'afo was so much less than what he might have been.
 
Ru'afo was pretty terrible, but I've always blamed the writing not the acting. The whole character's purpose was "We need to have a conventional villain!" Whereas Dougherty was more the shade of gray. Not as "fun" to see the "shade of gray" character get blown up, and they thought they needed to have that.
 
What bothered me the most about Ru'afo was just how gosh-darned stupid he was. If he'd played nice with Dougherty and Picard he might have actually gotten away with his Evil Scheme(tm), but he was so damn petulant and aggressive that it was impossible to sympathize with him. It might have been better if Gallitin had been the lead and Ru'afo had been his radical subordinate who ultimately betrayed him and took charge, though that's a bit of a trope as well.
 
Whenever I think of TFF nowadays, I am reminded of this passage from The Nitpicker's Guide for Classic Trekkers:

"In the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode 'Disaster', Picard and three children climb up a turbolift tube. Wanting to brighten up the children's spirits, the captain asks them if they know any good songs. One of the children responds with the title "The Laughing Vulcan and His Dog". Every time I see the opening sequence of this movie, I wonder if that song refers to Sybok and his sidekick. (I know. That wasn't very nice.)"

No, not very nice at all but a lingering impression of TFF for me ever since I first read that review. Honestly, I cannot remember the last time I watched it. It's not a good film. It has some good character moments sprinkled throughout the film but not enough for me to overcome it's shortcomings in plot and action.

On the other hand, I find Generations to be more re-watchable. Yes the film carries within it a certain funeral atmosphere what with what all happens to Kirk in the beginning and the fate of Picard's family on Earth. The whole business with Data and his emotion chip felt rushed for me though and even got annoying with his over-exposure to it.

But I liked Malcolm McDowell as Soran, he brought an intensity and focus to Soran's singular motivation. His 'Time is the fire in which we burn' speech to Picard still gives me chills. Plus if anyone can kill Kirk, it should be him!

As for Kirk's death, I thought it was very effective. As established in TFF, Kirk died alone here bereft of dearest friends. I thought his final words were fitting and haunting. Of all the wonders this captain had seen throughout his storied life, what he saw as death embraced him amazed him. Oh my indeed.

(At least it wasn't Q, right Picard?)

Lastly the destruction of the Enterprise-D was quite enjoyable. I believe Ronald D Moore has mentioned that he and some of his cohorts had been wanting to destroy that ship for a number of years prior to this film. Well,Mr. Moore, Job Well Done.

For me, Generations over TFF.
 
The irony is that if they had destroyed that beautiful Galaxy-class ship in the show, we'd have gotten a TV budget ship that would look more like the Starfleet ships in the show and would have been better than the awful Enterprise E. I've seen all the canon Enterprise ships from E onward and in my personal opinion, the designs never recovered after the Enterprise D. That ship set a standard, and every ship looked like an ugly squashed duck and like a fancy red sports car akin to the old joke about a man in a mid-life crisis getting which is shaped like a penis. It never got better, just got worse and worse with each new Enterprise.
 
The irony is that if they had destroyed that beautiful Galaxy-class ship in the show, we'd have gotten a TV budget ship that would look more like the Starfleet ships in the show and would have been better than the awful Enterprise E. I've seen all the canon Enterprise ships from E onward and in my personal opinion, the designs never recovered after the Enterprise D. That ship set a standard, and every ship looked like an ugly squashed duck and like a fancy red sports car akin to the old joke about a man in a mid-life crisis getting which is shaped like a penis. It never got better, just got worse and worse with each new Enterprise.
I mostly agree.

I like the D better than the E.
I like the E better than the F.
.
.
.
But I don't like the F better than the G. I prefer the G. Pattern reversed.
 
They both suffer at least a bit from having pretty disliked basic plots.

Generations a lot of people don't like Kirk dying and/or just think a crossover was really unnecessary, TFF most people dislike having all the comedy but they also wouldn't accept or like if the whole crew had actually, seriously just betrayed Kirk and Starfleet and the film had actually focused on that.
 
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