Generations Observations

[CoveTom]

Re-watching Generations, a couple things occur to me...

1. This is the only of the TNG films that really feels like TNG. Complaints about plot holes and forced humor aside, it really captures the feel of the TV show, and I wish the rest of the movies had done that.

2. William Shatner doesn't seem to be playing James T. Kirk in this film. He seems to be playing William Shatner. And there is a difference. Whether it's in the writing, the acting or both, the characterization of Kirk just seems... off.

3. This film is not nearly as bad as the reputation it gets.

Thoughts?

 

[Star Treks]

I agree that it does feel the "Most TNG" of the four, although to be fair some of that must be at least subconsciously because it's the only one set on the Enterprise-D we came to know and love for seven years. However, I don't think that the different tone of the other films is necessarily bad - First Contact is my favorite of all the Star Trek films. Insurrection was not very good, and Nemesis is okay and a bit underrated.

I see what you're saying about Shatner although the impression never struck me more than as a mild feeling.

As for number three - Generations is, in my opinion, a good movie. It's not a classic, it's not as good as Treks 2 6 or 8 to be sure, but I found it a very enjoyable, well-done film with nice moments of humor and (whatever anyone else says) a very exciting crash sequence. It has its weaknesses, but it's not as bad as some people assert.

 

[Trekker4747]

Having watched Generations a couple of times recently, with Rifftrax, I agree. It's not "that bad" a movie. I think it's bogged down by some boring stuff (Picard and Troi's conversation being one) and some saccharine stuff that would've been best left on the cutting room floor (Picard's Nexus vision) and certainly we could've done without the death of Kirk and losing the -D (though the crash sequence is pretty cool and though the effect dosen't hold up as much today it still manages to take my breath away) but other than that stuff...

 

[Computer]

I always liked Generations, it isnt my favorite but it holds its weight.

The crash sequence was the only thing that bothered me, everything before it came through the clouds was perfect but when it landed and I saw trees incredibly springing back up as the Saucer ran over them... meh whatever.

I think perhaps a more fitting end would have been the E-D crew standing on the bridge of the Farrgaut (spelling?) standing at attention as the ship fired on the E-D wreckage to prevent it being discovered by the people over on Veridian III.

Similar to how they destroyed the Lantry but minus the disease.

 

[Data Holmes]

Computer said:
I always liked Generations, it isnt my favorite but it holds its weight.

The crash sequence was the only thing that bothered me, everything before it came through the clouds was perfect but when it landed and I saw trees incredibly springing back up as the Saucer ran over them... meh whatever.

I think perhaps a more fitting end would have been the E-D crew standing on the bridge of the Farrgaut (spelling?) standing at attention as the ship fired on the E-D wreckage to prevent it being discovered by the people over on Veridian III.

Similar to how they destroyed the Lantry but minus the disease.

While such a final moment would have been quite touching and dramatic, it would have removed the whole angle of Spock returning to visit kirk's grave with the salave/clean up crew only to witness the theft of his remains by the Romulians.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

^That was in what is referred to as the Shatnerverse, where Kirk comes back.

 

[Data Holmes]

Peach Wookiee said:
^That was in what is referred to as the Shatnerverse, where Kirk comes back.

Indeed...

 

[SonicRanger]

hutt359 said:
[While such a final moment would have been quite touching and dramatic, it would have removed the whole angle of Spock returning to visit kirk's grave with the salave/clean up crew only to witness the theft of his remains by the Romulians.

Oh, yes, what a shame that would be... We wouldn't have the Shatnerverse...

Although Shatner would have found a way -- if there was so much at stake, Shatner would have found a way!

 

[WalkinMan]

I think GEN is somewhat underrated at parts, but is rightly criticised as well.

The ending was very triumphant and nice, but it would have been more fitting for the E-D to have had a tribute worthy of it, such as the crew standing attention at the end as suggested.

 

[bryce]

I would like to have seen Kirk die more heroically, like (and this would have tied in with the start of the film) somehow getting trapped on the E-D's stardrive section after having to manually fire the docking clamps because the power (and the transporters, *of course*) were out. And/or maybe having to manually pilot the stardrive away from the unpowered saucer...

And then maybe, at the last second, a tendril of the Nexus snaps out and hits the battle bridge, and we are left wondering...did he???

 

[Praetor]

I like to think that the whole point of the Nexus in Generations was a way of saying 'Yeah, he's dead, but a part of him is forever in the Nexus... so who knows...' And in my version of the movie, Picard would have jumped back far enough that the Enterprise-D wouldnt' have been destroyed.

 

[mr.peany]

I loved Generations. Best of the four TNG movies IMHO.

Also, the bridge looked cool on the ENT-D. The lighting and the side stations made it look really..."functional".

 

[seigezunt]

anything, anything would have been a better end for Kirk. A waste, and the movie: a waste of time.

Personally, I think they could have killed him off at the end of ST VI, and at least have him die for something significant.

 

[InklingStar]

In my own imaginary version of the Star Trek canon, Kirk dies saving the Federation President from the assassin in TUC.

Of course, in Shatner's imaginary canon, Kirk comes back from the dead and saves the galaxy.

 

[Trekker4747]

They should've just not destroyed the -D at all!

Seriously, I never understood that. It was THEIR ship it was part of the show and something fans watched and loved for 7 years it deserved to be on the big screen as much as the crew did. A far more fitting tribute for her would've been the saucer being destroyed fighting the Romulan/Reman Scimitar in Nemesis and THEN the ship getting de-comissioned. That would've been a proper ending for her, dying against an equal or better adversary saving the Federation.

I know ILM, supposedly, didn't like the limitations the model gave them for theatrical filming but tough luck. Deal with it! It ended up being moot anyway since the switched to CG.

I missed that ship during the following movies the -E never felt like "home", like 'the Enterprise' it just felt like a meaningless, shallow, ship-of-the week and it was only "cool" to fanboys who drooled and said, "Ooooo 8 photon torpedo tooobes! Quatumm topedoes!!!"

Whatever. The -D should've fought the Borg and gone back to Earth, the -D should've fought the Sona, and the -D should've died defending Earth from Shinzon's madness.

 

[Michael]

Well, I've never really seen it like that. But in some ways you're right: Why destroying the familiar -D just to introduce the heartless -E? I never really thought about it. I'd like to have seen the -D in STAR TREK VIII - X.

 

[Praetor]

Trekker4747 said:
They should've just not destroyed the -D at all!

I missed that ship during the following movies the -E never felt like "home", like 'the Enterprise' it just felt like a meaningless, shallow, ship-of-the week and it was only "cool" to fanboys who drooled and said, "Ooooo 8 photon torpedo tooobes! Quatumm topedoes!!!"

Whatever. The -D should've fought the Borg and gone back to Earth, the -D should've fought the Sona, and the -D should've died defending Earth from Shinzon's madness.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

 

[InklingStar]

I like the 1701-E but I agree they should not have destroyed the D. It looked so beautiful in Generations (and I missed it in theatres even!) that it is a shame the writers felt they had to destroy it.

 

[Trekker4747]

InklingStar said:
I like the 1701-E but I agree they should not have destroyed the D. It looked so beautiful in Generations (and I missed it in theatres even!) that it is a shame the writers felt they had to destroy it.

There's some gorgeous shots of the -D in Generations, a couple I think are cleaned up versions of the TV ones, but there's one in paticular showing the -D going to warp that's prety stunning to me.

Anyway, as I understand it, the writeres DID have to destroy it! It was a directive from the contin.. er the Producers.

 

[CoveTom]

The Enterprise-D was as much a main character on TNG as Picard or Riker. Destroying her took away a key component, and the future movies were worse for it. To me, the Enterprise-E was just a ship. Wouldn't the self-destruct order in First Contact have packed a much bigger emotional punch if the ship had been one we'd known and loved for years rather than one we just met?