Generations: A Defence

[dillon3001]

Generations is one movie i haven't seen in awhile, but one thing i do remember was how much i enjoyed the musical score of the movie. I saw a clip that used the score for the intro for Star Trek Enterprise (which IMHO should have been the theme they used, it was excellent)

Link to said Enterprise opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfWgU1fj3nM

 

[Cky]

And again, I'm not disputing your opinion because you're entitled to it. I'm simply saying that when it comes down to it, it was a poorly conceived film. I would have liked it if it had a strong storyline behind it, and less scenes with out of character moments, and more Star Trekesk scenes.

It was a very well put together movie that was one of the most "Trekesk"
Star Trek movies made and I never saw one out of character moment,
infact it had some of the best character moments.

I was going to just ignore this thread completely and let it be, but this struck a cord with me I believe.

You cannot say that there was not one single out of character moment. How about the whole back-story with Data's emotion chip?! I get the fact that him experiencing emotion's was suppost to be a "corner-stone" if you will in the franchise, but it just completely ruined the character. Now I'm not going to blame Brent Spiner for this because it wasn't his fault. But to put a character in a situation where he is trying to evolve and become more human for around a decade, and then within half an hour jump to him with the emotion chip is retarded.

Every single scene where Data is shown he is out of character, sloppy, and used for nothing but comic relief which we do not need in a film that isn't dark enough to warrant it. I mean honestly they couldn't have done worse if they said Data becomes a Cat and starts to shit everywhere.

I also saw somewhere, I believe it was GalaxyX who said that it is just a film and not to be taken seriously. I'm not ignorant and I know what a film is, what you've got to understand is that it isn't JUST a film but it becomes a part of a persons life when they watch it. I can remember every movie I've ever seen on screen and I know my personal opinion about that film, thus it's become a part of my life.

Kirk was a generation before me, but he became instilled in the minds of millions of people around the world. Then Generations kill him in a pointless way. The Enterprise-D was my generation and I grew up watching that ship and became part of my history. Then Berman decided that it's not a great looking ship to be in the movies and had it destroyed, again in a pointless manner.

Also in my opinion, Star Trek VI was a great send-off for the TOS cast, granted 3(?) of them came back for later episodes of TNG and VOY, but it was a great way to send them off. Then Generations brings back Scotty and Chekov, now I don't mean to be picky but I will. What do they do in these scenes but make themselves look old and stupid? Gee, thanks Berman.

Anyway I'm straying away from my point yet again. This film did not suck, but don't get me wrong, this film wasn't great either. It probably hangs somewhere between Star Wars Episode 3 and the Alf movie.

 

[GalaxyX]

Every single scene where Data is shown he is out of character, sloppy, and used for nothing but comic relief which we do not need in a film that isn't dark enough to warrant it. I mean honestly they couldn't have done worse if they said Data becomes a Cat and starts to shit everywhere.

I also saw somewhere, I believe it was GalaxyX who said that it is just a film and not to be taken seriously. I'm not ignorant and I know what a film is, what you've got to understand is that it isn't JUST a film but it becomes a part of a persons life when they watch it. I can remember every movie I've ever seen on screen and I know my personal opinion about that film, thus it's become a part of my life.

Ok, you're taking my post out of context here.

I did say in passing that movies are not real life. However that doesn't mean that the story won't influence you. In fact, that's my whole gripe with this movie. I happen to agree with everything you've said.

Data spent his entire lifetime looking on how to be human, and finally when he gets an "emotion chip" he become "bad comedian Data" (which really is bad comedian Spiner). The problem with Data is that he never got to redeem himself in the movie (about the mistakes the emotion chip caused him to make, like letting Geordi get captured, etc).

I mean there are SO many things wrong with this movie, but I would have forgiven them all (yes, even the destruction of my beloved Enterprise D) if they had NOT killed Kirk. I'm just sick and tired of people defending his death. This is the reason I say movies are "entertainment" and not "real life". I have no interest in watching "real life" scenarios if they are going to be tragic. I want to watch something that will "entertain" me. Generations, while not being terribly coherent, would have been mildly entertaining if they had not killed Kirk.

 

[GalaxyX]

So Wrath of Khan sucked?

Not sure if this was meant for me or not, but it came right after my post, so I will answer.

When I saw the TOS Films, I already knew that Spock was going to die in the 2nd film and be brought back in the 3rd. So the death of Spock did not have any negative impact on me, as I knew he would be back. If he had ended up dead for good, then in my eyes, YES it would have sucked, and gone into the trashbin.

If TNG had some a "The Search for Kirk" movie where they end up getting Kirk back alive, the atrocity Generations did would have been more forgivable.

 

[Cky]

Just to point out, when Data used the emotion chip, it was the worst idea ever. It just squashed 7 years of Data's character development.

Then he can turn it on and off, THEN he can take it out.

 

[GalaxyX]

Just to point out, when Data used the emotion chip, it was the worst idea ever. It just squashed 7 years of Data's character development.

Then he can turn it on and off, THEN he can take it out.

I don't think Brent Spiner is an actor good enough to portray an emotionless android who suddenly got emotions.

The problem with an emotionless android is that it would be a cold calculating being, sort of like the Enterprise Computer. Yet throughout the series it's clear that Data has a very basic level of emotion (which is due to Brent Spiner not understanding what emotionless was supposed to be, and instead played out Data like a very young child).

In Generations, it seems like Brent (nor the directors) knew how to portray an artificial lifeform with new emotions, so they just told Brent to be himself.

Realizing that this was a huge mistake, they basically kept his emotion chip switched off for the rest of the movies.

Incredible how they managed to ruin 4 chances at making a great TNG film. Oh well, at least we still have the series.

 

[trekkerguy]

This film did not suck, but don't get me wrong, this film wasn't great either.

It was an amazing film.

 

[Cky]

Just to point out, when Data used the emotion chip, it was the worst idea ever. It just squashed 7 years of Data's character development.

Then he can turn it on and off, THEN he can take it out.

I don't think Brent Spiner is an actor good enough to portray an emotionless android who suddenly got emotions.

The problem with an emotionless android is that it would be a cold calculating being, sort of like the Enterprise Computer. Yet throughout the series it's clear that Data has a very basic level of emotion (which is due to Brent Spiner not understanding what emotionless was supposed to be, and instead played out Data like a very young child).

In Generations, it seems like Brent (nor the directors) knew how to portray an artificial lifeform with new emotions, so they just told Brent to be himself.

Realizing that this was a huge mistake, they basically kept his emotion chip switched off for the rest of the movies.

Incredible how they managed to ruin 4 chances at making a great TNG film. Oh well, at least we still have the series.

What? No, no, no, no and finally no.

There's opinion and then theres not knowing what you're talking about, and you sir, don't know what you're talking about. I'll give credit where credit is due, and Brent Spiner deserves a lot of credit for Data, and for his attempt to pull off an android suddenly getting emotions. The whole problem IS that Data was given emotions, I mean jesus christ c'mon.

 

[trekkerguy]

Data being given emotions was genius.

 

[GalaxyX]

What? No, no, no, no and finally no.

There's opinion and then theres not knowing what you're talking about, and you sir, don't know what you're talking about. I'll give credit where credit is due, and Brent Spiner deserves a lot of credit for Data, and for his attempt to pull off an android suddenly getting emotions. The whole problem IS that Data was given emotions, I mean jesus christ c'mon.
__________________

^^^ Ok, I respect your opinion. I do believe Data getting "emotions" could have been written quite well. The problem is that the way it was done was so schitzophrenic that it ended up being a confusing mess.

I mean it went something like this:

1. Chip is damaged in fight with Lore. Data almost destroys it, but is stopped by Geordi in a "as a friend I can't let you destroy your dream" sort of way.

2. Apparently the chip is fixed somewhere along the way, but we're not told when or how.

3. The defining moment for Data to decide to use it was when he couldn't understand why pushing Crusher off the side of the sailing ship was not funny (Ahh....because Worf is the comedy relief of the senior staff and Crusher is not? )

4. When he DOES install it, he turns into a bad comedian.

5. There is ZERO development for the emotion chip later on. They just decided to switch it off for the rest of the movies.

That's basically the way I saw it.

 

[Cky]

Yeah exactly, it COULD have been written really well, but instead it was just a poor, messy solution that looked like it had been thrown together at the last minute.

Not to mention the size of the emotion chip seemed to increase by 100%.

 

[trekkerguy]

It was written very well and had a very rich, clean presentation to it.

The emotion chip made more sense and worked better cinematicly being larger.

 

[cardinal biggles]

The emotion chip made more sense and worked better cinematicly being larger.

No, it didn't. If it had, they wouldn't have spent the next three movies trying to find ways to get around it (FC) or forget it altogether (INS, NEM).

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

There is no reason to make a defense for Generations.

It's a perfectly fine film and a great Trek movie.

Ugh, so untrue.

 

[trekkerguy]

The emotion chip made more sense and worked better cinematicly being larger.

No, it didn't. If it had, they wouldn't have spent the next three movies trying to find ways to get around it (FC) or forget it altogether (INS, NEM).

Actually it does. It wasn't part of the plotline for those films so there
was no need to focus on or explain anything beyond; it's not there.

There is no reason to make a defense for Generations.

It's a perfectly fine film and a great Trek movie.

Ugh, so untrue.

Not untrue. My view. There is no "truth".

 

[Cheapjack]

I thought Generations was the best of the TNG films. First Contact was awful - the bit with the Vulcans at the end made me cringe"

I loved the beginning, I loved the bit with Picard crying and his 'family christmas', and I liked the bit where Kirk died.

It was very well written, far better written than Contact.

 

[Cky]

...You liked the bit where Kirk died?

Get out.

 

[trekkerguy]

...You liked the bit where Kirk died?

Get out.

So did I. Had a very epic feel to it. The end of a legend right there before
us making one last heroic act. Brought a tear.

Of course, leave the fanboi resurrection of Kirk upto Shatner himself, but
at least that isn't canon.

 

[GalaxyX]

To both people that enjoyed watching Kirk die:


HAH HAH HAH HAH
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HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH
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HAH HAH HAH HAH
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HAH HAH HAH HAH
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HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH

 

[T'Cal]

Data being given emotions was genius.

That was the point where Data jumped the shark for me. They made an ass out of one of the best written characters in Trek. He had a tremendously rich and detailed background but once TNG went to the big screen, way too often he was used quite unsuccessfully as comic relief. Oddly enough, while I felt NEM was the weakest of the four films, Data's death was written wonderfully. Ironically, his sacrificial death brought him as close to humanity as his character could ever come, and without the emotion chip. Excellent! I feel the same way about how Worf was handled in the films: great character that was completely mis-handled in the films. Pity.

Back to GEN: I totally agree with whomever said that the score was great. It is my favorite of all 10 films.