Oh, I guess you didn't get the memo.
Generations: A Defence
- Thread starter Captain Zog
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Oh, I guess you didn't get the memo.
Sorry, can't let this one go, because the plot and sub-plots in the film are anything but intelligent, or well thought out.
Let's see:
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Picard is REALLY upset about the death of his nephew in a fire back on Earth, so, when Picard gets to 'The Nexus' (tm); and is told he can exit anywhere at anytime in time and space; where does he choose to exit? That's right, back on the planet where he entered from just 30 seconds before the missle launches.
(And let's not foprget the virtually IGNORED plot point stated by the real Guinan earlier in the film - that the Nexus is REALLY HARD toi leave because it gives you your most wanted dream, and even she stated she would go back if she could and Soran himself has been trying to get back for 78 years).In fact aside from the one scene where he is shown loosing total emotional control; the death of his nephew is virtually forgotten. IF the plot had been 'well thought out'; one would think Picard would at least consider and possibly wrestle with the thought of going back to save his nephew and as for stopping Soran - one well placed sub space messge of his Nephew is safe could end all the mess before is starts. Does that violate the 'Temporal Prime Directive'? You bet; but if you're going to introduce a Dues Ex Machina like 'The Nexus' (tm); one would think (since the characters your writing about are supposed to be the 'best and brightest of StarFleet - you would have them consider the possibilities rather than just stupidly advancing the simple linear plot we saw of 'get Kirk, get back to the a point where the fight continues, save the day'.
Sorry, but the execution of the Star Trek: Generations film plot IS the main problem I've had with the film; and why it's one of the few (I don't have Star Trek V: The Final Frontier; Star Trek: Insurrecttion either. I have but didn't buy Star Trek: Nemesis either, but got it as a 'thank you' gift for someone I helped move.)
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
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Picard is REALLY upset about the death of his nephew in a fire back on Earth, so, when Picard gets to 'The Nexus' (tm); and is told he can exit anywhere at anytime in time and space; where does he choose to exit? That's right, back on the planet where he entered from just 30 seconds before the missle launches.
Well, that's because Guinan and Soran had "echos" in the Nexus from when they were beamed out. So the attraction for them was even greater.
Totally agree. I've said it before, the postNexus exit should be:
Once exiting the Nexus they should go to the burning vinyard house (for dramatic purpose of course, rather than a day or an hour before), and run in and save Picard's family. Then a brief hug-touchy feely scene, and cut to the Enterprise with Riker "blah, blah I still don't understand how you got to Earth without leaving the ship?" "NO TIME, NUMBA ONE!" Off to the research station maybe in time to mix it up with the Romulan attackers. Still have a showdown with Soran, this time he's stuck on the station as his own rocket destroys the star (again), but perishes before Lursa and Betor arrive or because the Enterprise takes out the bird of prey (cue stock footage of bird of prey blowing up from Star Trek 6!).
As for Kirk...well, I dunno.
Trekkerguy, GalaxyX, I enjoyed Generations as well. I have a feeling a lot of good movies have plotholes you could drive a MAC truck through, but you suspend your disbelief and enjoy. 
Well if you read my post carefully, you'll see that Generation wasn't just full of plot holes. I'm happy to ignore plot holes if a story is entertaining.
However, Generation was a deliberate attempt to stick a knife in TOS's heart AND TNG's heart at the same time, in the hopes that they could "toss out" TOS and TNG, and come up with "Action Movie" Treks.
Why didn't they just to an action movie TNG where the TOS cast is involved (and maybe the TOS cast rightfully passes on the baton? I thin that would have been more widely accepted).
Personally, while I hated the destruction of my favorite ship, the Enterprise D, what really destroyed the movie in my eyes was the killing of Kirk. How can you sit there and be happy that your "feel good Trek movie" tragically killed it's main hero? I seriously don't get that. And anyone who can still enjoy that movie even after that is NOT a TOS fan NOR a TNG fan, sorry........
People die. Pretending otherwise is stupid. A hero giving his life in order to save millions of people? That is a story which is as old as time. I can understand people being upset about the way Kirk died, but I'll never understand how people can be upset by the fact that he died.
There is a lot to like about this film but the nexus plotline is poorly thought out. I like some of the banter in the 23 c. scenes. Making Harriman look like a sackless wonder was embarrassing, though. They didn't have to knock him down to build up Kirk. While I like some of the parts of Worf's promotion scene on the boat, that holodeck "tradition" came out of nowhere and was awkward. Data was handled very poorly in this film (and most of the others as well). One minor suggestion that would've improved it, if only a bit, is if Beverly had been Picard's wife in the nexus fantasy. I like the nexus scenes with Kirk and Picard but the scene that follows, three men in their 60s pummeling each other, is somewhat laughable.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
You nailed it...this movie is by far, with out a doubt, the best TNG movie. It has the best quotes it has the best subtle message, it is STAR TREK...
But, unfortunately, alot of our TREK friends need non-stop action and sexy Borg babes to put their butts in those movie chairs. First Contact, which totally ruins the Borg, craps all over continuity more so than JJ's movie will, is loved by all because...it has a sexy Borg babe that turns them on...
Generations...best TNG movie...no contest..
Rob
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Sorry..but nothing is worse than making up things that never happened...like the Queen being part of BOBW when she wasn't..THAT is what I call sticking a middle finger up at the fans and saying "we will do what we want and you fans will eat it up because..well...we can"
FC just does not hold up well the more time passes..Generation is aging like fine wine...
Rob
... I'm sorry, who are you?
Grow up, you are no one to decide who is or isn't a fan of something.
I am a TOS fan, I am a TNG fan, and I loooooooooooooooooooooooooove
Generations and every single minute of every Star Trek movie and series.
I'll be ignoring your posts from here on out as you have demonstrated no
ability to post anything of any value without attempting to alienate other
fans/posters and lifting yourself above them with a self proffessed Trek
righteousness. There is no clergy of Trek that decides there's some
phantom standard one must meet to be a fan, outside simply enjoying the
progamming, and you sir certainly wouldn't be it.
Jolan Tru.
Haven't watched Generations for the first time ever two nights ago I have to say that I really enjoyed it. I thought the death of Kirk was the only real big problem that I had with the movie and mostly because I think his last lines were just terrible (it was fun?? WTF!?). But I was warned before I ever watched the movie that Kirk's death happened that way (I need to duct tape my husband's mouth on occasion to keep him from spoiling me). Now I just watched First Contact and I thought it was slightly better than Generations, only because I couldn't find any part of it that I disliked. Up next on the watch list is Nemesis and Insurrection. The hubs says that the TNG movies go downhill rapidly from First Contact. I'll let you all know. 
The hubs says that the TNG movies go downhill rapidly from First Contact. I'll let you all know.
That's all a matter of opinion all based on taste.
There is no actual defining of good or bad, best or worst.
If it entertains you and not the next guy, it's good entertainment.
Generations, good
First Contact, excellent
Insurrection, good
Nemesis, excellent
Yours may be opposite, jumbled or even upside down.
The point is your entertainment is for you regardless of how
many nitpicks someone else may have toward it.
And to someone else, Generations may very well be the "best".
Well, it's not only my opinion that Generations is the worst of the TNG franchise. Many many people who is a fan of the TNG series and Star Trek as a whole thought that it was a poor, thoughtless film. I'm not going to go in to any detail again about this film but there are major major things wrong with it. A few examples are every scene where Kirk is shown, everytime Data is shown, the whole story.
I mean, I'm not going to discredit you and say your opinion is wrong because of course it's not. And I know figures aren't everything but I pulled these from a few websites:
Star Trek: Generations - $75,671,125
Star Trek: First Contact - $92,027,888
Star Trek: Insurrection - $70,187,658
Star Trek: Nemesis - $43,254,409
Now in the defence of Insurrection and Nemesis, they were the films they came off the back of terrible films.
I mean, I'm not going to discredit you and say your opinion is wrong because of course it's not. And I know figures aren't everything but I pulled these from a few websites:
Star Trek: Generations - $75,671,125
Star Trek: First Contact - $92,027,888
Star Trek: Insurrection - $70,187,658
Star Trek: Nemesis - $43,254,409
Now in the defence of Insurrection and Nemesis, they were the films they came off the back of terrible films.
^^ I know the figures and popular opinions. That means nothing when it comes
to entertainment. It simply means a large amount of people didn't like it.
Figures mean absoloutely nothing. A majority vote in this case can't overrule
an individuals view.
You can't discredit me or anyone for that matter. There is no solid facts
on what is good entertainment or not, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.
There is no final truth to it regardless of how many numbers or opinions
you can show, to one person it's the greatest film ever, to the other it's trash.
to entertainment. It simply means a large amount of people didn't like it.
Figures mean absoloutely nothing. A majority vote in this case can't overrule
an individuals view.
You can't discredit me or anyone for that matter. There is no solid facts
on what is good entertainment or not, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.
There is no final truth to it regardless of how many numbers or opinions
you can show, to one person it's the greatest film ever, to the other it's trash.
They tried to make Star Trek in to an action franchise, and failed.
And again, I'm not disputing your opinion because you're entitled to it. I'm simply saying that when it comes down to it, it was a poorly conceived film. I would have liked it if it had a strong storyline behind it, and less scenes with out of character moments, and more Star Trekesk scenes.
I'm sure some people know what I mean when I say that. But compaire the movie to the last episode of TNG, it was so much better that I would have gone to the cinema to see that instead.
And again, I'm not disputing your opinion because you're entitled to it. I'm simply saying that when it comes down to it, it was a poorly conceived film. I would have liked it if it had a strong storyline behind it, and less scenes with out of character moments, and more Star Trekesk scenes.
I'm sure some people know what I mean when I say that. But compaire the movie to the last episode of TNG, it was so much better that I would have gone to the cinema to see that instead.
You do whatever you want. All they had to do is NOT kill Kirk, and I too would be right along with you defending this movie.
I don't watch movies to see my favorite heroes die in the end. Movies are not real life. Trek is not real life. It is simply a nice story to entertain me. If they do something NOT entertaining (like the tragic death of a beloved hero) then I will be DAMN righteous and say that it sucked, even if everything else about the movie was great.
So Wrath of Khan sucked?
Though that's not what they did in the slightest since the films
actually got more and more "talky" up until Nemesis.
It was a very well put together movie that was one of the most "Trekesk"
Star Trek movies made and I never saw one out of character moment,
infact it had some of the best character moments.
See.
Generations was far better than AGT.
Now, all of your statements were opinion as were mine, neither of us
proved anything here because like I said; there is no truth or final right.
Indeed none of what you stated is fact, and the same for what I said.
It's all in the eyes of the beholder.
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