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Generations: A Defence

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Generations contains superb cinematography and FX. Looking past the numerous plot problems I still think it's by far the best looking of the Next Gen films.
Excellent performances all round as well, especially Stewart and McDowell.
 
Another interesting thing, wouldn't there be 2 Picards when he went back to the planet? Did the Picard that was going to square off agaist Soran alone just dissapear in place of the Nexus exiting Picard and Kirk? Did Nexus Picard do a 'Quantum leap' into Planet Picard's body, and if so that would not explain Kirk, who was previously in the Nexus and came out in his own physical body. For Guinan and Soran is a bit different since they were half phased in tho the Nexus then transported out, thus leaving an echo of Guinan and presumably Soran behind in the Nexus.

You see, thats the problem I have with it and how people bringing up the "temporal prime directive" is just completely bullshit. Either there are 2 of him occupying that time and space, or the Picard that exists in that time is erased by the Picard that transported there. Which makes me ask the question: Why the fuck didn't he go back to the Enterprise-D and stop him there?! OR send Kirk back to the Enterprise-B and stop him there?!

Fucking Berman.
 
Except that he couldn't send Kirk back to the Enterprise-B; it's 78 years before Soran would succeed in getting to the Nexus. I'm pretty sure the Federation doesn't prosecute people for crimes they haven't even thought about committing yet.

If Kirk went to Harriman and said, "Arrest this refugee! In 78 years, he's going to blow up a couple of stars so he can get into that energy vortex thingy we were just pummeled by," he'd be laughed at.
 
Yeah I'd have to agree, they would probably think Kirk is just trying to get some attention again.

Although it doesn't stop Picard from doing it, we've seen on screen many times that the crew have obeyed his orders even though they make next to no sence.
 
In Picard's case, it would make more sense; he could come back during the Ten Forward scene, have Worf take Soran into custody, and let Data and Geordi go to town tearing the Armagosa Observatory apart to find Soran's hidden room full of torpedoes and trilithium.
 
My problems with Generations are the plotholes that you could drive a Starship through, like with the Nexus stuff.

It seems like a no-brainer to have Kirk go out in a blaze of glory on the bridge of a starship, not by having a stupid bridge fall on him. His last words were lame. By this point Shatner had given up trying to act like Kirk and basically just acts like..William Shatner! Spiner's performance is painfully bad, as it was in all of the TNG movies.

Aside from those problems I still find the movie enjoyable.
 
Well you see, I'd have to disagree with some of that. The only time I've ever seen Shatner act good was Star Trek 3, mainly because the director told him time and time again to reshoot, finally he got tried and didn't over exaggerate anything.

I thought Spiner's acting wasn't the problem, it was the awful script he was given. And he improved in Nemesis, when he didn't have a bad script.
 
You're thinking of Wrath of Khan, not Search for Spock. It was Nick Meyer, not Leonard Nimoy, who used the practice of multiple takes to wear Shatner down to a normal, non-hammy performance.
 
You're thinking of Wrath of Khan, not Search for Spock. It was Nick Meyer, not Leonard Nimoy, who used the practice of multiple takes to wear Shatner down to a normal, non-hammy performance.

Ah yes, I didn't mean to type 3. :P
 
Generations is just so lame. Its boring and dull, like a slightly-below-average TNG episode, and doesn't really add much to the franchise. I don't think I can ever forgive the producers for killing off the Duras sisters, two of my favourite characters in the TNG era, and Kirk is just so pathetic (although some of that blame may be due to Shatner, never the best of actors). Data was cringeworthy too, with his lines "Yes!" and "Oh shit!".
 
I thought those 2 lines of Data's was just to show some humor in how human he was becoming. I agree that Kirk should have been killed on the bridge of a ship..did you see the cut of the original ending where Soran shot him in the back? Now that was a bad way to go..glad they reshot it.
 
Okay, I've read though everything but our quotes are getting to long and annoying.

Everything in Generations happens for convenience and to waste time, Diana was only at the controls on the Enterprise because she didn't have as much screentime as the rest of the characters.

Touching on what i just said, the whole film follows this same pattern, every character -- including Guinan, are just on screen for the sake of getting screen time. Nemesis is a prime example of this, as they follow the same system as Generations.

Okay sure, David and Carol probably wouldn't be in this scene, but either way he wouldn't be there, to introduce something like that in to this film is just stupid, it's like in another TNG film, saying Picard had a house in England that he always lives in, even though we know he doesn't and have never heard of it before.

Oh and Data's emotion chip is mentioned in First Contact, but it's not mentioned at all in Nemesis, and I don't think it's mentioned in Insurrection.
You know it would have helped if you hadn't copied confused matthew review of generations on youtube.
 
Okay, I've read though everything but our quotes are getting to long and annoying.

Everything in Generations happens for convenience and to waste time, Diana was only at the controls on the Enterprise because she didn't have as much screentime as the rest of the characters.

Touching on what i just said, the whole film follows this same pattern, every character -- including Guinan, are just on screen for the sake of getting screen time. Nemesis is a prime example of this, as they follow the same system as Generations.

Okay sure, David and Carol probably wouldn't be in this scene, but either way he wouldn't be there, to introduce something like that in to this film is just stupid, it's like in another TNG film, saying Picard had a house in England that he always lives in, even though we know he doesn't and have never heard of it before.

Oh and Data's emotion chip is mentioned in First Contact, but it's not mentioned at all in Nemesis, and I don't think it's mentioned in Insurrection.
You know it would have helped if you hadn't copied confused matthew review of generations on youtube.

Actually you know what's ironic? I got contacted via MSN because of everything I said and got a link to confused matthew's review, so no I didn't copy it, lol.

I've watched everything he's done now, and I have near identical points of view to everything he's done.
 
Didn't read the whole thread. However I know what I hated about the movie, and it will go in order of most hated to least:

1. Killing of Kirk.

I don't care what anyone says or how they try to sugar coat it. The character of Kirk to most Star Trek fans is an icon and a legend. He is the main hero of Star Trek. You can't kill off a main hero in a story and leave him dead, unless the point of your story was to be a tragedy. I remember sitting down to watch the movie with my dad and my little bro (who was 15 at the time). When Kirk died, my little bro started crying, and my dad just looked at me like someone sucker punched him in the stomach (TOS being his favorite series). What the fluck is wrong with these writers?? Chimpanzees could have written a better story.

I know what they were trying to do. They were trying to heavy handedly say "TOS is dead guys, TNG is taking over the reigns".

Well it heavily backfired on them. Anyone that knows me knows I like TNG as my farorite series, and while I enjoy TOS, TNG is just a bit more fun for me. HOWEVER, NO CHARACTER in TNG can even hope to come close to the charisma of Kirk (and by proxy, Spock and McCoy). And of course, killing Kirk felt like they were killing the hero of the story, even if it was supposed to be TNG and not TOS (most regular trek fans do not frikkin' care about the difference).

Anyway, how would I have handled Kirk in this movie. Well, scratch the whole storyline and come up with something where both crews work together to solve a problem, and in the end, Kirk and crew say to Picard and crew: "Captain Picard, your crew truly is worthy of being in command of the Starship Enterprise" or some line like that.

Oh boy, like 90% of Trekkies would have an orgasm right then and there, and the casual viewer would have said "wow, that was pretty damn funky! this movie wasn't so bad"

But if they HAD to keep the same story, then don't kill the guy. Give him the highest honor on Earth by Star Fleet, let him retire peacefully, maybe even have him meet up with the Scotty from "Relics". See? it writes itself?

2. Destroying the Enterprise D. Huge mistake. The Enterprise D was such a huge part of TNG, that destroying it was destroying an iconic part of the series. How would TOS fans have felt if the Enterprise had been blown up and replaced by an Excelsior for all 6 movies? Well that's what the TNG movies did. To make things worse, they replaced it with this insect looking thing that has hideous Nacelles.

Those were the main movie killers to most people I think.

There's also more minor quibbles like:

3. The nexus. It doesn't make sense story wise. You can't fly up to it on a ship, it has to come to you. So how come Kirk got sent up to it on a ship? Soran should have just taken a shuttle by himself, stopped it right in the nexus' path, and let it come to him, end of story.

Oh but they couldn't use time travel because it's so cliche. Right, and they ended up going to Time Travel again for the 2nd TNG film, and it actually turned out to be pretty decent, go figure.

Of course, since being in the nexus means you can go anywhere in time, go back to the point Soran steals that trilithium stuff and catch him there, making the crew aware exactly of what's going on. No need to even get Kirk involved, leave the guy enjoy his nexus at least.

4. [Simpsons moment here] "Ah!! again with the Klingons!!"
TNG wore down the Klingon stories. Come up with something new dammit. Personally I think it was all done to reuse the footage of that exploding Klingon BoP, which was severely lame.

All in all, a horrible movie that makes me sick. Only Nemesis is worse.
 
There is no reason to make a defense for Generations.

It's a perfectly fine film and a great Trek movie.
 
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