If Rybeck becomes WWE Champion in two weeks I will go on an indefinite hiatus on pro wrestling again. I'm already on a pseudo on as it is. A part of me almost thought we were going to get a triple threat Hell in a Cell...
General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!
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^ That seems like a gross overreaction to me even if you aren't a Ryback fan.
I really see a lot of similarities between the current state of the WWE and what happened back in early 2004. Back then, if you'll recall, the WWE had just lost Brock Lesnar (the guy around whom they'd pretty much build their Smackdown! brand and who, like John Cena is now, was heavily depended upon to be the 'face of the company' [although he wasn't the only one in this position]), Kurt Angle had just severely aggravated an injury he'd been nursing for months, and most of the company's established 'main-event' caliber talent was involved in storylines that would've had to have been abandoned were they to have been called upon to help fill the talent void left by Lesnar's departure and Angle's injury. All of this resulted in the monster push of one Bradshaw, a guy whom I doubt many people would've pegged as being worthy of the push he received, but who ended up not only having one of the longest WWE Championship reigns of the past decade, but also became the 'new face of Smackdown!' and one of the most dominant and entertaining heel characters to come out of the company in a very long time.
Contrast that with the current state of the WWE; John Cena, the guy who, as noted, is in the same position as Brock Lesnar was back in '04, has been sidelined with injury, and many of the guys that could be counted upon to help fill the void left by his absence are either no longer employed by the company, no longer actively wrestling, injured themselves, or else otherwise engaged at the present time. Enter Ryback, who is in almost the exact same position that Bradshaw was back in '04; time will tell whether or not Ryback's monster push into the main event ends up being the success that Bradshaw's was, but, right now, it is very premature, IMO, to be throwing around statements like 'I'm going to stop watching the WWE product if Vince puts the WWE on Ryback's shoulders and lets him run with the company for a while'.
I really see a lot of similarities between the current state of the WWE and what happened back in early 2004. Back then, if you'll recall, the WWE had just lost Brock Lesnar (the guy around whom they'd pretty much build their Smackdown! brand and who, like John Cena is now, was heavily depended upon to be the 'face of the company' [although he wasn't the only one in this position]), Kurt Angle had just severely aggravated an injury he'd been nursing for months, and most of the company's established 'main-event' caliber talent was involved in storylines that would've had to have been abandoned were they to have been called upon to help fill the talent void left by Lesnar's departure and Angle's injury. All of this resulted in the monster push of one Bradshaw, a guy whom I doubt many people would've pegged as being worthy of the push he received, but who ended up not only having one of the longest WWE Championship reigns of the past decade, but also became the 'new face of Smackdown!' and one of the most dominant and entertaining heel characters to come out of the company in a very long time.
Contrast that with the current state of the WWE; John Cena, the guy who, as noted, is in the same position as Brock Lesnar was back in '04, has been sidelined with injury, and many of the guys that could be counted upon to help fill the void left by his absence are either no longer employed by the company, no longer actively wrestling, injured themselves, or else otherwise engaged at the present time. Enter Ryback, who is in almost the exact same position that Bradshaw was back in '04; time will tell whether or not Ryback's monster push into the main event ends up being the success that Bradshaw's was, but, right now, it is very premature, IMO, to be throwing around statements like 'I'm going to stop watching the WWE product if Vince puts the WWE on Ryback's shoulders and lets him run with the company for a while'.
It maybe a gross overreaction but he is just one issue in a number of issues that I've had a problem with since Punk blew Vince a kiss last July. The product since then has become mediocre to borderline boring and completely unwatchable. I have not watched a three hour Raw since it started. Also nor do I think Rybeck will win the title, all I'm saying that for me that would be the final straw for a long while. I personally have no interest in watching a Ryback Title reign. So while to you, it might seem like a gross overreaction, to me this would be be the breaking point. I think that I've been pretty even keel throughout both incarnations of this thread with my views over the last two years, so if I have the odd overreaction I don't really see the big deal about it 
^ Thanks for the explanation. I actually agree with you that the WWE's product has gone steadily downhill from what it used to be even just 6 months ago, but that's one of the reasons why I think it's great that Ryback has been thrust into the position he's currently in.
The WWE desperately needed something to shake them out of their 'complacent mediocrity', and I see Cena's injury as being that catalyst. Ryback, like Bradshaw back in '04, is the beneficiary of injuries and departures depleting the WWE's stock of main event-caliber talent, and only time will tell whether or not he's equal to the challenge and whether or not the WWE has the patience to give him the opportunity to flourish as a top-tier guy the way they did Bradshaw even if the WWE Universe doesn't immediately embrace him in that kind of a role.
The WWE desperately needed something to shake them out of their 'complacent mediocrity', and I see Cena's injury as being that catalyst. Ryback, like Bradshaw back in '04, is the beneficiary of injuries and departures depleting the WWE's stock of main event-caliber talent, and only time will tell whether or not he's equal to the challenge and whether or not the WWE has the patience to give him the opportunity to flourish as a top-tier guy the way they did Bradshaw even if the WWE Universe doesn't immediately embrace him in that kind of a role.
In the coming out of no where news department...CM Punk wrote the forward to the Avengers Vs X-Men hardcover collection coming out early next year. I know he is a huge comic book fan, but this seems kind of random.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2012/10/15/wwe-cm-punk-avengers-x-men-collection/1634211/
I'm also not sure about Ryback. I don't really have much of an opinion, except that he isn't ready for a WWE Title reign, thus my statement
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2012/10/15/wwe-cm-punk-avengers-x-men-collection/1634211/
I'm also not sure about Ryback. I don't really have much of an opinion, except that he isn't ready for a WWE Title reign, thus my statement
In my opinion, WWE is in a lose/lose situation no matter what they do. If they went your route, fans would get pissed for getting a big non-finish on the end of a ppv they paid for. If ryback gets the title, people will feel it is way too soon, and that WWE will be shoving Ryback down our throats. If Punk wins, Ryback is just "another guy."
Mr. Silver: Hell in a Cell matches don't end in No Contests. They are designed to end in a clear-cut victory, clean or otherwise, for one of the participants, so the WWE has two options: end Punk's title reign or end Ryback's streak. Unless, of course, they take Ryback out of the match entirely (which I really doubt they'll do given that they actually signed a contract for the match LIVE on RAW).
Actually we did have had "no contest" Hell in a Cell matches, in fact we've had two. The Tag team one from 1998, it was even on a Raw. The second one ever I believe. It was Undertaker and Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Mankind and Kane. The second one was Mankind Vs Kane on another Raw in the same year. So it's possible to have a no contest in a Hell in a Cell.
Admiral Young: I just found out about those two matches, and they were ruled No Contests because they never officially got started.
However, there has never been a Hell in a Cell match contested at a PPV event to be a 'non-starter', and I find it next to impossible to believe that Punk vs. Ryback will be the first, especially since that match is one of the two 'headliners' for the HiaC PPV.
However, there has never been a Hell in a Cell match contested at a PPV event to be a 'non-starter', and I find it next to impossible to believe that Punk vs. Ryback will be the first, especially since that match is one of the two 'headliners' for the HiaC PPV.
They do if one of the participants legs it and cannot be found!
Yup, this is Sheamus all over again. If this happens, it will will go a long way towards curing me of my WWE habit and freeing up Monday nights. I would have no problem with Punk losing the title if it was against pretty much anyone on the roster who's proven he can work anything beyond a squash match and has a personality more engaging than that of a neanderthal. Ryberg has done neither which makes his potentially winning the title a poison pill for me.
The WWE is doing Punk vs. Ryback because Cena's elbow won't be healed by the PPV, so try again.
This isn't like the Divas title thing with Kaitlin, Layla, and Eve where they had the option of running an angle that could get them back to 'Plan A'.
I find the JBL/Ryback comparison kinda ludicrous. JBL had been a proven worker for YEARS before Vince elected to put the belt on him because he had no other real option. With Ryback, not only is he green as grass but he has an imitation of a well known gimmick. It wasn't that long ago that he was the overlyroided-looking, utterly forgettable big man from NXT season 1. Ryback is little more than Scott Steiner without the profanity-laced promos that make zero sense and thats only because Ryback has no mic skills to speak of. The only thing he has going for him is that he's inexplicably very over. Which is great, but what about all the guys who are also pretty over and have been working their asses off so much longer?
I'm no fan of JBL, but lets have some objectivity here. Has Ryback done anything to earn a title shot other than stand between Punk and Mick Foley? No.
Unless Vince is so high on Ryback that he has no idea what color the sky is, I don't see him choosing the Ryback's streak over Punk's WWE reign. Yes, HiaC could easily end in a no-contest to protect both.
I'm no fan of JBL, but lets have some objectivity here. Has Ryback done anything to earn a title shot other than stand between Punk and Mick Foley? No.
Unless Vince is so high on Ryback that he has no idea what color the sky is, I don't see him choosing the Ryback's streak over Punk's WWE reign. Yes, HiaC could easily end in a no-contest to protect both.
I definitely see where you are coming from and I think it's actually worse than Sheamus. When Sheamus captured the WWE Championship, it was during a time where the title was being passed back and forth between John Cena and Randy Orton. It was a breath of fresh air to see a completely new star capture the top title within a few months of debuting. (something that hadn't been done for years)
The problem was, Sheamus just didn't catch on as WWE Champion. Nobody could really buy it because he was limited to what WWE deemed acceptable where the other main eventers were concerned. What I'm getting at is, Sheamus wasn't afforded a "legitimate" victory when he won the title. The finish was made to look like Sheamus simply got lucky and that Cena lost his balance and went through the table. Contrast this with the last fast-rising in Brock Lesnar. Lesnar was afforded the booking to dominate upper mid-carders, such as Jeff Hardy, and go over mega stars such as Hulk Hogan, before having a highly competitive, but ultimately dominant contest vs. The Rock at Summerslam 2002 - in which he cleanly beat Rock for the title.
Ryback has spent months dominating nobodies. These performances are meaningless though, because he hasn't actually dominated any "big names". Sure he's beaten the likes of Jinder Mahal and Jack Swagger, but WWE has booked it so EVERYONE is expected to beat them. If Ryback were to manhandle somebody like Big Show, it would add so much more to his profile.
Per this booking, Ryback could win the WWE Championship, but nobody would really care, because he hasn't been booked as a real threat. Besides, even if he does continue dominating, sooner or later, he'll turn heel and find himself tapping like a madman to John Cena's no-pressure STF.
ETA: And what's with the nothing-more than a glorified Samoan drop as a finish? There doesn't appear to be anything stopping him using an actual muscle buster...
You negative lot. Give Ryback a chance, he's still fresh and potentially entertaining. Wait for him to conclusively become a boring failure in matches, then complain. He's not had a proper match, that's what makes it interesting. I'm sure he'll probably be awful and people will look back on his HiaC like the worst of late WCW. But it's not happened yet. Be optimistic, like me.
You negative lot. Give Ryback a chance, he's still fresh and potentially entertaining. Wait for him to conclusively become a boring failure in matches, then complain. He's not had a proper match, that's what makes it interesting. I'm sure he'll probably be awful and people will look back on his HiaC like the worst of late WCW. But it's not happened yet. Be optimistic, like me.
You have a lot more faith in the current WWE product than I do! See, I tend to approach professional wrestling (American pro-wrestling, in particular) with cautious optimism. I expect things to be crappy at times, but I also expect something to happen that will blow minds. The adage, "When it's good, it's really good" is so fitting.
TNA has done a complete 180 in the past year. It's been incredible how much the product has improved, especially when it comes to story telling. The Ace's and 8's reveal, in which we found out Devon was a member, was a shocking revelation! They actually managed to fool everybody, in a day and age where the dirt sheets usually know this kind of stuff in advance.
I honestly feel that WWE's lack of competition and ten-fold increase in merchandise profit in the last few years, has caused the company to slack off when it comes to good wrestling matches and storytelling.
Interesting interview conducted with Paul Heyman.
http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_66037.shtml
http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_66037.shtml
You negative lot. Give Ryback a chance, he's still fresh and potentially entertaining. Wait for him to conclusively become a boring failure in matches, then complain. He's not had a proper match, that's what makes it interesting. I'm sure he'll probably be awful and people will look back on his HiaC like the worst of late WCW. But it's not happened yet. Be optimistic, like me.
I don't know if it's being negative or realistic in this case, and this is coming from the guy who consistently defends Smackdown--that show may not be as glitzy as Raw or have the top tier guys all the time but it's actually a decent show most of the time.
I stand by what I said about Ryberg. Beating local talent and bottom-tier guys in 2 minute matches doesn't make him anywhere near qualified for a world title match. IMO he was never fresh and not very entertaining once the "wow, he can Samoan drop two 125 lb. wrestlers" newness wore off. If the WWE wanted to toss a new guy into the mix for the shock factor, I'd have no problem with Damien Sandow or Antonio Cesaro in that role--both of them are miles beyond Ryberg in terms of overall entertainment factor plus in-ring ability and mic skills.
A part of my stance on Ryback is also that his whole entire gimmick is obviously a riff or rehash of Goldberg. Not really gotten into him one way or another because of that.
EDIT:
I found this to be a very interesting interview. I was previous under the impression that Jericho was one of those few guys who Vince basically had on a "call me if you really need me" basis, but from the tone here, that would appear not to be the case.
http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_66059.shtml
EDIT:
I found this to be a very interesting interview. I was previous under the impression that Jericho was one of those few guys who Vince basically had on a "call me if you really need me" basis, but from the tone here, that would appear not to be the case.
http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_66059.shtml
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