Gary Mitchell as First Officer

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Jose Tyler, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Push The Button

    Push The Button Commodore Commodore

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    I stand corrected.

    So Deanna gets to sit closer to the Captain than the second officer...man, that is messed up.
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That's probably so the counselor can talk to the captain without anyone on the other ship hearing it (and when muting all of the bridge audio would be suspicious).

    When giving orders, the captain wants everyone to hear; but talking to the counselor is often private.
     
  3. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    That was a flaw in TNG. Real captains don't need a therapist at their elbow to command a ship.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ You can blame Roddenberry for that. He was in full psychobabble-utopia mode when TNG was created. :mad:
     
  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I have to agree. As much as I love WNMHGB and the Mitchell character, there's no confusion about the first officer position, and as many point out, Spock served the same position in relation to the captain as he would in the regular series.
     
  6. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ...and the rest of the Berman period of ST. A ton of new age, morning talk show nonsense forced into the ST format. You would ended up with the same result with a ship run by Dr. Joyce Brothers, Dr. Phil, Oprah, and any other champion of the confused.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I always figured Spock wearing command yellow in WNMHGB was an abortive attempt to show that he was more than "just" science officer.

    (of course, now I can't watch it without the "co-captain" silliness of Turkish Star Trek in my head)
     
  8. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Of course they did. How else could they tell the Romulans/Klingons/other alien species were being deceptive?
     
  9. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, the fact that Spock and Kirk share the "gold" shirt and star badge seems to me like an indication of intent to link them as CO and XO.

    Regarding the helm/nav console situation in TOS, I always figured that the two were really basically the same thing and could perform each other's functions, they just had two different "traditional" titles. The same way that aircraft have a pilot and co-pilot, but in the military one is called the "aircraft commander" and the other the "pilot," or "captain" and "first officer" on an airliner.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, McCoy was essentially Kirk's counselor during TOS. He was often as much a psychologist as he was a surgeon, and even included overseeing the mental health of the crew as part of his duties.

    Whereas that was simply one of McCoy's responsibilities as CMO, it was Troi's sole one as ship's counselor. IMO, the fundamental difference is whereas Picard asked for Troi's advice, McCoy freely gave his advice to Kirk whether he wanted it or not.
     
  11. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I got this feeling too.
     
  12. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    But Troi just happened to be a Betazoid, and Picard exploited her psychic ability against opponents. Being psychic wasn't a job requirement for the ship's counselor, who officially (and outrageously) was supposed to be on the bridge to monitor the captain's mood and soothe the dear man. Presumably, many "mere human" therapists were acting as Captain's Nanny during the TNG era.

    But notice that on Voyager, when a woman was in charge, suddenly the captain was a strong, independent force with no need for emotional supervision. Apparently L.A. therapy culture was in conflict with feminism, and happily feminism won. [I like Voyager, btw. In my view that show gets a bad rap around here.]
     
  13. EnsignHarper

    EnsignHarper Captain Captain

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    I believe the original in universe explanation was that the Galaxy class ships were SUPPOSED be on longer deep space missions with a larger crew with a LOT of children aboard, do SOME kind of personal counseling would be necessary. As it turned out, TNG did very LITTLE real exploring...

    Voyager, and the other hand, was a lean, mean ship with a smaller crew, that was probably the equivalent of a destroyer in a navy, and did a lot of dirty work - far more than Enterprise was supposed to...
     
  14. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

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    So did I. I always thought Mitchell was XO.
     
  15. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Not once did I think Mitchell was XO, but I did think that he was closer to Kirk as a friend than Spock was. It's even possible that Mitchell and Kelso were friends, which makes what happened on Delta Vega even more tragic if so.
     
  16. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Likewise. It never occurred to me that Mitchell could be the First Officer until this thread came along.
     
  17. Sci Fi Fan

    Sci Fi Fan Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I really liked the references to that episode in the Vanguard novel, Harbinger, where Kirk is still upset about having to kill Gary Mitchell.
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The difference is, McCoy gave Kirk advice he NEEDED.
     
  19. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Here's what a 5-2-66 memo from Roddenberry says about Spock:

    An even earlier document -- the first draft of the writer-director information guide, dated 3-15-66 -- is even clearer:

    And here's what the 7-8-65 draft of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" says when it introduces Spock:

    The whole thing seems pretty cut and dry to me. Spock is the ship's science officer, the ship's science officer is second-in-command, therefore Spock is second-in-command.
     
  20. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    The same could be said for Troi giving Picard advice HE needed, but hers tended to be mission-related (in particular with outsiders) rather than about personal matters with him.