Garak and "In the Pale Moonlight" (*Spoilers*)

[Too Much Fun]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the line as it is. I was just playing devil's advocate a bit and saying that from a logical perspective it probably would have been a bit more plausible for him to simply say, "Captain, my people have confirmed that this is a forgery. Rest assured, the Romulan Senate will not kindly upon this deception". Something in that vein. It would saved us the time used up in the next scene of Sisko saying that he was told this.

I'm glad they went with the line and reading we saw. For the sake of realism I'm just saying it could have been a little less campy and a little more believable if he'd calmly explained the situation rather than only yelling, "IT'S A FAAAAAAAKE" as soon as Sisko walked in the room. It strikes me as odd, especially coming from a Romulan, who, if I'm not mistaken, belongs to a race that has always been established in Star Trek as one of the more calm and dignified peoples. Unlike, say, a Klingon or a Ferengi, who would be much more prone to yelling like that.

 

[TheGodBen]

But that was the point, they showed Vreenak as a calm and calculating Romulan earlier in the episode so the force with which he said the line made us realise just how outraged he was.

 

[jamestyler]

I'm agreed with GodBen and others on 'the line'. As OTT as it seems, it was short, snappy, to the point. The ep was all about Sisko talking us through what happened so it made sense for Sisko to explain or theorise the outcome rather than Vreenak tell us.

 

[Praetor]

But that was the point, they showed Vreenak as a calm and calculating Romulan earlier in the episode so the force with which he said the line made us realise just how outraged he was.

That's always been my take on it too.

 

[Bisz]

I think it wouldn't have worked at all and wouldn't have been believable if he calmly explained to Sisko that they figured out it was a fake. Look at the gravity of the situation, look at what Sisko just tried to do, and considering that Vreenak is a Romulan and not a Vulcan, outright outrage was the believable response.

 

[apenpaap]

Garak is my favourite recurring character. A quote that from Blackadder's Chrismas Carol that would be a good description of him:
"What a PIG!"
"Clearly, but what a clever, charming pig."

 

[JustKate]

But that was the point, they showed Vreenak as a calm and calculating Romulan earlier in the episode so the force with which he said the line made us realise just how outraged he was.

That's always been my take on it too.

That's exactly how I saw it as well. And as Bisz says, it really wouldn't have been believable if Vreenak had responded to this outrage with calmness. Romulans can be calm and dignified, yes...but often only on the surface.

 

[Praetor]

But that was the point, they showed Vreenak as a calm and calculating Romulan earlier in the episode so the force with which he said the line made us realise just how outraged he was.

That's always been my take on it too.

That's exactly how I saw it as well. And as Bisz says, it really wouldn't have been believable if Vreenak had responded to this outrage with calmness. Romulans can be calm and dignified, yes...but often only on the surface.

I wouldn't have minded if he'd also smashed a desktop monitor a la Spock in 'Amok Time' for good measure.

 

[Jbarney]

I am a huge Trek fan, but I missed this episode when it was originally on TV. Last night I watched it for the first time, and I enjoyed it a lot. I'd heard about it from friends, and obviously seen the ramifications on later episodes but here are my thougts.....

1. Garak's role in the series really became imporant in this episode and his actions were very well written. I loved the argument scene between he and Sisko at the very end of the episode.

2. The overall importance of the episode is huge for the Trek universe. The Dominion War was big enough, but the fact the Romulans are now involved in the struggle just makes it that much more massive. This episode also seems to put "Statistical Probabilities" into context, as I don't think Bashir or the genetically engineered people could accurately calculate the Romulan's response.

3. I also find the place of this episode very interesting. Chronologically it happens right after "Inquisition" which has the very same moral issues explored. While you walk away from "Inquisition" thinking Star Fleet has to get a handle on this rogue group of people doing what they want, you don't get the same feeling about Brooks or Garak in "In The Pale Moonlight". So I think its interesting the writers tried to explore the same themes but used the characters to give us a different perspective. The pairing of the two episodes is fantastic on the part of the writers.

4. I find myself exploring the moral implications of Sisko's decision to employ Garak in the effort to bring the Romulans into the war....and find myself wondering what the other Trek characters would have done. I think Kirk would have done it, and been glad to have participated.....What about Picard? Riker? Spock? What would they have done?

Great episode, very thought provoking.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Garak is my favourite recurring character. A quote that from Blackadder's Chrismas Carol that would be a good description of him:
"What a PIG!"
"Clearly, but what a clever, charming pig."

Almost ditto.

Snake, not pig.

Garak is the coolest character in the show.

Kind of reminds me of T'Pring. She got two dummies to fight each other so no matter which one won she got what she wanted.

Dragonladies and Dragonlords rule!

psik

PS - Beware of cynics.

 

[Destructor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXWQIiFxjbc&NR=1

Oh dear Lord. Accidentally started watching that at work, had to stop it 1/3rd of the way through as I was just laughing too hard.

 

[Destructor]

I love Garak, love the episode. Five stars all around.

I had no idea the "It's a FAAAAKE!" line had such a fan following!

 

[DevilEyes]

Garak is my favourite recurring character. A quote that from Blackadder's Chrismas Carol that would be a good description of him:
"What a PIG!"
"Clearly, but what a clever, charming pig."

Almost ditto.

Snake, not pig.

Garak is the coolest character in the show.

Kind of reminds me of T'Pring. She got two dummies to fight each other so no matter which one won she got what she wanted.

Ah, but Garak was far funnier and wittier.

 

[Anwar]

Eh, he was okay. The smugness got on my nerves after a bit. Dukat at least had the true evil to counter the smugness (and the "Satan" stuff too, that was cool).

 

[psikeyhackr]

Kind of reminds me of T'Pring. She got two dummies to fight each other so no matter which one won she got what she wanted.

Ah, but Garak was far funnier and wittier.

Unfair comparison. She only appeared in one episode.

But she demonstrated Garak's ruthless decisiveness.

Dragonladies Rule!

psik

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I loved In the Pale Moonlight.

Personally, I could not believe my Trek eyes and ears. He covered it up! Fab!

 

[Anthony Sabre]

I loved In the Pale Moonlight.

Personally, I could not believe my Trek eyes and ears. He covered it up! Fab!

That makes two of us (actually a lot more). I remember sitting there in stunned silence when the credits suddenly began to role. To this day, Sisko's final line in the episode sends chills down my spine.

 

[Navaros]

^

I too was in awe of ITPM's sheer awesomeness after having first heard the Sisko's final line in it. That was several years ago, and to this day, I remain every bit as much in awe.

 

[Anwar]

Eh, I never thought it was THAT good. Still don't.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Yeah, me neither. The hype over it here is absurd. I started this thread to admit that it gave me a new appreciation for Garak and because I was really blown away by the reveal at the end, but I don't think the rest of the episode is that great. It continues to surprise me how overpraised this episode and "Duet" are here, and I wonder if that isn't in large part because people here are biased towards episodes with strong endings.

Both episodes have really powerful endings, but my idea of a truly great episode is one that is enthralling from start to finish, and to me, neither episode fits that bill. They're both filled with excessive exposition, which is one of my biggest pet peeves in stories (on television and movies) these days, and they really tried my patience with that.