Game Of Thrones Season 6 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Ethros]

Game of Thrones producer explains just how Arya and Varys got from one place to another so fast

Basically the timelines of all the different scenes going on don't always sync up. Otherwise you'd have major characters disspearing for long stretches of time.

The timelines of the various story threads don't necessarily match up all the time," Cogman wrote. "This is to avoid things like, say, Arya spending four episodes on a boat."

He added: "I tied myself in knots season 1 trying to make it all line up. We realised right quick doing so would kill momentum. So there you go."

Also presume you Varys instead of Viserys. He was Dany's asshole brother in s1.

 

[Cyrus]

Moorcock's Behold the Man.

That is what came to my mind too, though I didn't remember the title. I haven't read it but have heard about it. A great scifi, time travel idea for a book, and also a gutsy one as it was bound to offend a lot of people..

 

[Locutus of Bored]

In case anyone's interested in calculating the distances and travel times for Varys and Arya (I'm not), this Google Doc has all the information you should need:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KAqa9wwODqaFkegqf8Si6fmuE55-M-GMIj0ZmcKUFxs/edit

 

[theenglish]

Game of Thrones producer explains just how Arya and Varys got from one place to another so fast

Basically the timelines of all the different scenes going on don't always sync up. Otherwise you'd have major characters disspearing for long stretches of time.



Also presume you Varys instead of Viserys. He was Dany's asshole brother in s1.

Yes, I just fixed that--thanks.

It seems like Varys' journey should have taken about three or four months. The ride from Castle Black to Winterfell should have taken two to three months and add to that the time journeying around the north to gather an army. That matches up with the Iron Fleet's travel time to Mereen.

I know the series doesn't want to bog down the story with traveling, but I sometimes wish it would do a better job mentioning the passage of time. The books certainly do a much better job of showing the perils of travel for the characters.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Sometimes the books do TOO good of a job showing the passage of time. Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons were both meandering travelogues that had little to do with the greater plot of the story. I agree that a better compromise might have been struck, but there's only so much you can fit in to 10 eps per season. Now that the final two seasons are only going to be only 7 or 8 eps each, I wouldn't expect there to be much filler as they approach the end-game.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Not likely considering the only people who know Bran is actually alive are Meera, Benjen, Sansa, Jon, and whoever else Theon and Sansa have told. The world at large believe Bran is dead. Now that may change with Rickon's reappearance and actual death, but I have a feeling Cersei has bigger fish to fry. She hasn't given a wet snot about the Starks since Sansa fled King's Landing.

Sam

 

[Nerys Myk]

I have a feeling Cersei has bigger fish to fry. She hasn't given a wet snot about the Starks since Sansa fled King's Landing.

Since this is Cersei, I'm sure that will bite her in the ass.

 

[FPAlpha]

Sam and Edd discovered a broken horn among the dragonglass in a Knight's Watch cloak at the Fist of the First Men.

Mance Rayder mentioned searching for and then being in possession of the Horn of Winter that can supposedly bring down the Wall. Tormund later said it was a bluff, either because he didn't have it or because Mance didn't actually want the Wall to come down because he needed to get his people south of it for protecting them from the White Walkers too.

So it has been mentioned or teased on the show before.

And the official (as of now) cover for The Winds of Winter features a horn on the cover, which could either be the Horn of Winter or Dragonbinder. GRRM confirmed that that is the cover for now, and he no doubt had some input on that, so I think it's pretty clear that a magical horn of some sort must play a significant role in the book.

Given the show's propensity for combining storylines and characters from the books, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think they might combine The Horn of Joramun/Horn of Winter which woke the giants and can bring down the Wall with Dragonbinder, which can control dragons. Euron Greyjoy can think he's gotten control of Dragonbinder (which he's obsessed with) but instead has the Horn of Winter and almost dooms them all.

Think of the plot strands we've got that just started but need to be resolved within two short seasons:

- Sam's journey to Oldtown, possibly still with the Horn in his personal belongings, and a library of ancient knowledge to learn its secret from, has to result in some insight or development about the White Walkers which we don't already know (we already know about dragonglass, dragonfire, and Valyrian steel affecting them) in order to justify his journey there.

- Euron Greyjoy, who is obsessed with dragons in the books, originally wanted to ally with Daenarys until his niece and nephew stole his idea, and attacked Oldtown with his own Ironborn fleet in the books. If he can't ally with Daenarys he may try and get control of the dragons some other way, perhaps with a horn that he's going to try and find at the Citadel.

- The White Walkers have to pass by not only the physical barrier of the Wall, but also the magical barrier (which is why Benjen couldn't go south either). So far people dismiss every method proposed, but haven't suggested how this is going to happen otherwise.

By this point in the TV show it would feel like a true Deus Ex Machina.. it hasn't been openly mentioned anywhere or even alluded to in the show (that i can remember) and now having a character pull this out of the bag and go "Btw.. i have this horn. Wonder what it does?" would just rip me out of the flow of the story completely.

Also it just seems so puny.. such a small thing able to bring down a huge wall of that size just looks ridiculous onscreen. I had the same feeling when i saw Boromir blowing the Horn of Gondor and i actually laughed at the Toot Toot sound it made.. i have read the books before as a teenager and had a completely different image in my mind,

I really hope they find another way for the Night King to cross the wall.. Bran is still not at the top of his game as the Three Eyed Raven as opposed to the Night King so it may be a colossal fuck up on his part or he can also see the future and knows the wall has to come down so the NIght King can be defeated once and for all and he engineers it somehow.

Just having a guy standing in front of this gigantic wall and blowing a horn kinda seems ridiculous for a show that used magic in a pretty subdued way most of the time (apart from Dragons but they are now very impressive, powerfull and scary as opposed to the little lizards when they hatched).

 

[JWPlatt]

Also it just seems so puny.. such a small thing able to bring down a huge wall of that size just looks ridiculous onscreen.

You mean like the One Ring?

Mr. Dryden (Lawrence of Arabia); David (Prometheus): Big things have small beginnings.
Boromir: It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing.

 

[theenglish]

With the right direction and the right build up the horn could be a very cool scene. Sam will now be learning the secrets of the white walkers and how to defeat them or drive them back but also learns about the power of magic horns in Westeros. The rest of the season is filled with the dreaded build up to the wall coming down.

 

[FPAlpha]

You mean like the One Ring?

Mr. Dryden (Lawrence of Arabia); David (Prometheus): Big things have small beginnings.
Boromir: It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing.

The difference with the Ring is that there is an elaborate story written around the Ring, it is explained in detail why it is important, its power is described and shown and the audience/the reader knows all this. It is the central piece of the story around which everything revolves and we get the importance of it early on so it stops being just a small ring but a piece of immense power.

Game of Thrones (the show) doesn't have that so if they use the Horn in the show they have just a few episodes to introduce it and build it up and i just can't see how that can work well in the show when they have ignored it for 6 seasons. I hope they find another way to get the Night King beyond the Wall (if the Wall is to fall at all).

 

[JWPlatt]

Why was a horn shown when Sam, Grenn, and Edd dug it up with the dragonglass?

Why does Sam still have it?

Why is there a horn on the cover of "The Winds of Winter?"

I don't understand how bringing down the wall would be an advantageous strategy for living folk, but it seems as if it is fated to come down.

It is possible to have a lot of drama concerning the blowing of the small horn. Maybe it has to be blown at a very specific place? The drama is getting there. Like Mount Doom. Rhetorically, how much of a fan is Martin of Tolkien?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Why does Sam still have it?

But we haven't even seen the horn since it first appeared way back in season 2. We don't even know if he actually still has it or where it is. That's the problem.

 

[Mr Light]

If they briefly showed a random horn back in Season 2, never mentioned it again, then it suddenly became the turning point of the entire series in Season 7... that would be pretty weird...

 

[JWPlatt]

Plenty of time with two years and thirteen episodes.

They're not tracking Sam's journey to the Citadel for no good reason. Something about his time there will be important enough on which to spend screen time. I'm guessing his research... Whether that's the horn or some other concoction, time will tell. But there will be something that comes out of it. The horn has already been introduced. So better that than some even newer discovery that has no backstory at all yet, by such deus ex machina reasoning. What else has been introduced that could ultimately allow a win against the Night King, et al?

 

[Mr Light]

Dragons? Dragonglass? Valyrian Steel? The Prince Who Was Promised?

 

[Vandervecken]

I don't understand how bringing down the wall would be an advantageous strategy for living folk, but it seems as if it is fated to come down.

How big is the wall? Could it be brought down on top of the Night King, the other White Walkers, and the wight hordes? Maybe the wall would have magical entombing properties once it did, so even if crushing the Night King isn't enough to destroy him--although why he should be immune to being crushed destroying him,, I don't know--it would bury and confine him.

I assume the wights would fall like string-cut puppets if the Night King were destroyed.

 

[theenglish]

Sam could also learn the secrets to more powerful magics, making Valyrian steel for example or perhaps that wildfyre is actually made to fend off the walkers.

 

[JWPlatt]

Dragons? Dragonglass? Valyrian Steel? The Prince Who Was Promised?

Thanks. I did only ask so that I could be reminded of what else could be considered besides the horn. Those are good. All except the Promised Prince (hmmm, not "Princess" - a clue???) are weapons that I don't think are going to scale sufficiently enough to defeat the enemy - especially the Valyrian steel, but even the dragons. I like the thought that the dragons restore the strength of magic to the world and cause certain events to transpire, so they are necessary but not the ultimate end. The Prince, however, could bring forth the knowledge of how to defeat them. Maybe only the Prince can wield the horn.

I think the small horn, while simple in the end, is valid if it requires all the events of the preceding books to transpire before all the pieces are in place so it can be successfully used. But even this does not seem like the endgame to me. Bringing down the wall, if it even happens, is probably just one more tool towards the ultimate end - whatever that is. So the horn wouldn't really be a cheat.

It would be kind of cool if the reader were given the chance to assume that bringing down the wall, or something like that, has some major part to play in the endgame, but then... not so much... and something else with deeper meaning, truth, and simplicity were the solution. Like giving back the Everlasting Gobstopper in Willy Wonka.

How big is the wall?

Too big, it is said, to support itself without magic.

I assume the wights would fall like string-cut puppets if the Night King were destroyed.

My thought as well - The Mothership Effect. But is Martin really so cliché?

 

[Venardhi]

In the show it is pretty clearly insinuated (at least to me) that the wights are actually just the dead being mass "warged" by some dark twist of that old magic, and so it would make sense that taking out the Night King and his scrotum-faced friends will stop them. In the books we have no such implication just yet.