Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
I thought it was pretty clear that her name isn't Talisa.
Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discuss
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Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
It's how she's credited - having said that, a quick google shows
So it looks like those bases are covered.
It's how she's credited - having said that, a quick google shows
Oona Chaplin was originally announced as playing Jeyne
So it looks like those bases are covered.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
Why can't the two be the same?
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
As has been said many times in these threads, GRRM is essentially a producer in name only. Creative decisions like this are made by Benioff and Weiss. One would hope with the input of people like Bryan Cogman (who is the best Educated in the intricacies of the story on the writing staff) and GRRM, but in the end they're the bosses.
As has been said many times in these threads, GRRM is essentially a producer in name only. Creative decisions like this are made by Benioff and Weiss. One would hope with the input of people like Bryan Cogman (who is the best Educated in the intricacies of the story on the writing staff) and GRRM, but in the end they're the bosses.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
I was referring to the fact that he also writes an episode (Blackwater this season, and episode 7 next year)
I was referring to the fact that he also writes an episode (Blackwater this season, and episode 7 next year)
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
I'm sorry, but that is a not a good excuse, IMO. This is a common argument among purists (not saying you are one, but...) - where the simple idea of showing something not from a book POV is "not paying attention to the subtext". Look, just because something isn't written in the books does not mean that it has subtext. (see below for another example)
Another example of the 'show not getting the subtext' is of course the Renly/Loras situation. Yes, even people who got that they were gay in the books thought that their scenes were missing the subtext and subtlety - but that was only because neither were POV characters, so noone could have observed their private moments. GRRM is faaaar from subtle when dealing with POV character sex acts and sexuality.
I'm sorry, but that is a not a good excuse, IMO. This is a common argument among purists (not saying you are one, but...) - where the simple idea of showing something not from a book POV is "not paying attention to the subtext". Look, just because something isn't written in the books does not mean that it has subtext. (see below for another example)
And saying that the Robb story is not about love is a rather definitive statement - and one not particularly well supported by facts. There certainly seemed to be romantic feelings between Robb & Jeyne. How much is not fully explored in the books (we only have Catelyn's POV), but there certainly were feelings involved. There are lots of fan theories about how Jeyne was in on the idea to 'get Robb' from the start, but I do not find them credible. Her family took advantage yes, but she did not appear to be aware.
Another example of the 'show not getting the subtext' is of course the Renly/Loras situation. Yes, even people who got that they were gay in the books thought that their scenes were missing the subtext and subtlety - but that was only because neither were POV characters, so noone could have observed their private moments. GRRM is faaaar from subtle when dealing with POV character sex acts and sexuality.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
And I've heard it "boar" more often personally.
I imagine piglets would beg to differ......and it's "tits on a boar, for the record.
Isn't it usually "tits on a bull"? I mean, you milk cows, but not so much pigs, so tits on a female pig aren't that useful to us either.
And I've heard it "boar" more often personally.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
Piglets wouldn't agree that pig tits aren't useful to us (humans)?
Anyway, the ultra-scientific Google method shows 359,000 results for "tits on a bull" and a mere 46,000 for the "boar" variant.
As for changes from the book, I can't say they really bug me. The books are the definitive version in my mind, and the TV show is just a fun interpretation. If they really wanted to stay faithful to the books, they'd need an ultra-slow 10-minute pan across a dinner table in every episode anyway.
The picture I have of GRRM writing is him typing on a typewriter, crumpled discarded pages all over the floor, and a giant turkey leg clenched in his teeth.
Piglets wouldn't agree that pig tits aren't useful to us (humans)?
Anyway, the ultra-scientific Google method shows 359,000 results for "tits on a bull" and a mere 46,000 for the "boar" variant.
As for changes from the book, I can't say they really bug me. The books are the definitive version in my mind, and the TV show is just a fun interpretation. If they really wanted to stay faithful to the books, they'd need an ultra-slow 10-minute pan across a dinner table in every episode anyway.
The picture I have of GRRM writing is him typing on a typewriter, crumpled discarded pages all over the floor, and a giant turkey leg clenched in his teeth.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
I am a purist to the extent that I understand from reading these books repeatedly that every cut and every change is going to have potentially serious long-term consequences on the story so they need to be few and made with extreme caution lest this whole tapestry fall apart and leave us with a show that is just Benioff and Weiss telling their own story with the trappings of ASOIAF.
Saying she came out of nowhere is ignoring the fact that everything that happens off screen could be said to come out of nowhere. Renly becoming king is "out of nowhere", Stannis Showing up at the wall is "Out of nowhere." etc. There are plenty of ways to show Robb's campaign in the westerlands, Jeyne's family's plot, etc. in a way that it wouldn't come out of nowhere as it is in the book because we would be there to see it develop. Clearly the producers felt they could avoid that story strand while still keeping Robb on screen all season if they just dropped it and replaced her with this new character. The book never spell out the Westerling plot or that they're in league with Tywin but it is pretty clear by the end of things that something along those lines went down. And Robb says straight up that he married her because he deflowered her, not because they had a torrid romance and fell in love. It was the honorable thing to do so he did it, trying to live up to his father's code. He comes to love her, but it was just another example of Stark honor overruling the harsh realities of their world to disastrous consequences.
I am a purist to the extent that I understand from reading these books repeatedly that every cut and every change is going to have potentially serious long-term consequences on the story so they need to be few and made with extreme caution lest this whole tapestry fall apart and leave us with a show that is just Benioff and Weiss telling their own story with the trappings of ASOIAF.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
Well, I did phrase it the way I did specifically so you couldn't do that. So I feel I bet ripped off
I knew you were going to react that way... no, I meant that the point of the aphorism is the relative utility of nipples on any male mammal.
Well, I did phrase it the way I did specifically so you couldn't do that. So I feel I bet ripped off
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
As a book reader I'm greatly enjoying the show thus far. Most of the changes have not been catastrophic.
However, I am a little bummed that we're not going to see Amory Lorch get eaten by a bear.
As a book reader I'm greatly enjoying the show thus far. Most of the changes have not been catastrophic.
However, I am a little bummed that we're not going to see Amory Lorch get eaten by a bear.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
It actually looks like they *didn't*
It actually looks like they *didn't*
They originally announced the actress playing Talisa as playing Jeyne - so I suspect we're going to find that Talisa *is* Jeyne, lying her ass off, just like Arya is pretending to be someone else at Tywin's camp. Though they're definitely deviating more from the book this time with other stuff
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
An excellent episode.
Two weeks ago, I hadn't read a page of the books - now I'm a little over half way through Clash of Kings and have just reached the equivalent of last night's opening scene (ie Theon invading Winterfell). As readers will know, there's a fair bit of divergence around now, and while I guessed what the 'Winterfell invaded by the sea' dreams in the book were going to lead to, I didn't expect it to happen so soon.
Interestingly, I'd thought that GOT had handled Theon a little more sympathetically than the books did, but after last night, he must die!!!!!!
Loved the attack on the Lannisters and, having reached it in the book today, I agree with those who were surprised that the attack on Sansa was so much more graphic on the tv version. They obviously merged it a little with the mention of the other noblegirl who was group raped. But Tyrion bitch-slapping Joffrey was just as good onscreen as on the page!
An excellent episode.
Two weeks ago, I hadn't read a page of the books - now I'm a little over half way through Clash of Kings and have just reached the equivalent of last night's opening scene (ie Theon invading Winterfell). As readers will know, there's a fair bit of divergence around now, and while I guessed what the 'Winterfell invaded by the sea' dreams in the book were going to lead to, I didn't expect it to happen so soon.
Interestingly, I'd thought that GOT had handled Theon a little more sympathetically than the books did, but after last night, he must die!!!!!!
Loved the attack on the Lannisters and, having reached it in the book today, I agree with those who were surprised that the attack on Sansa was so much more graphic on the tv version. They obviously merged it a little with the mention of the other noblegirl who was group raped. But Tyrion bitch-slapping Joffrey was just as good onscreen as on the page!
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
I think it's pretty obvious that Talisa is a Lannister, and probably the daughter of Reginald Lannister or whatever his name was, the guy Tywin told off last week.
Why? Same reason that we have Alton Lannister and not Cleos Frey: Easier to remind the audience that this person is on the wrong side of the war. It's not so much abandoning the Jeyne Westerling plot as it is tweaking it for a series that is already awash in noble houses and names and the like.
I think it's pretty obvious that Talisa is a Lannister, and probably the daughter of Reginald Lannister or whatever his name was, the guy Tywin told off last week.
Why? Same reason that we have Alton Lannister and not Cleos Frey: Easier to remind the audience that this person is on the wrong side of the war. It's not so much abandoning the Jeyne Westerling plot as it is tweaking it for a series that is already awash in noble houses and names and the like.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
Not needed, and really doesn't make any sense plot-wise, though. It had nothing to do with Jeyne being on the wrong side. It was simply that her last name WASN'T FREY.
Make her a Lannister, and you get nonsense about sleeping with the enemy, Romeo and Juliet, unneeded crap. It's simply that he didn't keep his promise to marry a Frey girl...
Not needed, and really doesn't make any sense plot-wise, though. It had nothing to do with Jeyne being on the wrong side. It was simply that her last name WASN'T FREY.
Make her a Lannister, and you get nonsense about sleeping with the enemy, Romeo and Juliet, unneeded crap. It's simply that he didn't keep his promise to marry a Frey girl...
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
...the Westerlings are bannermen to the Lannisters. If you want to complain about Romeo-and-Juliet implications of the story, then your problem is also with the novels.
That is, if Talisa Lannister remained Jeyne Westerling, this part of the story wouldn't change at all. The main difference is we basically saw next to nothing of Robb and Jeyne's relationship.
...the Westerlings are bannermen to the Lannisters. If you want to complain about Romeo-and-Juliet implications of the story, then your problem is also with the novels.
That is, if Talisa Lannister remained Jeyne Westerling, this part of the story wouldn't change at all. The main difference is we basically saw next to nothing of Robb and Jeyne's relationship.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
From what I've gathered (from people who are well informed on such things), the Westerlings as a whole have were dropped from the story, and in doing so Jeyne was renamed as the character no longer bore any resemblance to the character in the book.
I trust these people, but we'll find out for sure in the next couple weeks, so you don't need to take my word for it.
I trust these people, but we'll find out for sure in the next couple weeks, so you don't need to take my word for it.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
What we do know about their relationship from the book at all isn't Romeo and Juliet at all.
Her father (working for Lannister interested) essentially sent her to sleep with him so that he would be forced to marry her or besmirch his father's infamous honor, which opens the door to a Lannister/Frey alliance.
Re: Game of Thrones 2.6 - "The Old Gods and the New" - Rate and discus
Really, all that changing the name from Westerling to Lannister does is make clearer that she's from the wrong side of the war.
And your point is... what?
I mean, I am assuming Reginald Lannister is her father, and it's not necessarily the case that they're not doing this.
I mean, I am assuming Reginald Lannister is her father, and it's not necessarily the case that they're not doing this.