Funerals....a load of bollocks???

[Commander Troi]

If my friend doesn't make it, can they go after his mom for the bill? She's on a fixed income. I don't even know how she can pay for even the simplest of arrangements. We have a GoFundMe, set up when we thought he'd be stuck with a huge bill (no job or insurance), and it's being arranged for that to go to her, but... argh! This is so insane.

We really need single-payer healthcare in the US, but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime. I can't help but think that if he could've gone to a doctor when he first started feeling sick, he might not be in organ failure right now.

 

[Non Sync]

IANAL- generally, debtors would attempt to be paid from the estate for a single person. Relatives might be contacted by debt collectors, but shouldn't have any legal responsibility for any debt unless they were a co-signer.

 

[Commander Troi]

IANAL- generally, debtors would attempt to be paid from the estate for a single person. Relatives might be contacted by debt collectors, but shouldn't have any legal responsibility for any debt unless they were a co-signer.

There is no estate, as far as I know. I hope you're right. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Oddish]

Funerals may be a load of bollocks, but health care is a massive steaming load of crap.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

If my friend doesn't make it, can they go after his mom for the bill? She's on a fixed income. I don't even know how she can pay for even the simplest of arrangements. We have a GoFundMe, set up when we thought he'd be stuck with a huge bill (no job or insurance), and it's being arranged for that to go to her, but... argh! This is so insane.

We really need single-payer healthcare in the US, but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime. I can't help but think that if he could've gone to a doctor when he first started feeling sick, he might not be in organ failure right now.

We need a public option, so everybody still has choice. Not one size fits all. But that’s a separate topic. (And a system where the amount of payout for any claim is decided by a neutral party rather than the insurance company.)

My understanding of the law in these matters is credit companies can’t force next of kin to pay debts, but they often contact the next of kin and try to talk them into it, misrepresenting their legal position in the matter. But, if there is an estate, all debts of the estate must be settled before you can inherit from it.

Although I could be wrong about the second part of that seeing as my source is the show Silicon Valley.

 

[Non Sync]

There is no estate, as far as I know. I hope you're right. We'll find out soon enough.

One's estate is basically your assets, both physical and financial.

 

[Oddish]

I'm fairly sure that (possibly) except in the matter of the deceased being a minor, their family cannot be forced to pay medical bills. Funeral expenses, same. I also think that if you die destitute with no one to see to your final expenses, your remains can be taken by the state and used for medical research. And they'll presumably cremate you afterward. So there's always that zero cost option.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I'm fairly sure that (possibly) except in the matter of the deceased being a minor, their family cannot be forced to pay medical bills. Funeral expenses, same. I also think that if you die destitute with no one to see to your final expenses, your remains can be taken by the state and used for medical research. And they'll presumably cremate you afterward. So there's always that zero cost option.

I don't think they can use your body without your written consent even if you're destitute. People with no resources used to be buried in communal graves. Mozart was buried this way because when he died his debts exceeded his possessions so his family had no money to pay for a proper burial. Some irony, huh? I don't know what they do now but I doubt they can use the bodies as you said.

 

[Oddish]

That may be the case. I know that in the 1700's, the laws were changed. Until then, only executed criminals could be used for medical dissection. Medical students, desperate for bodies, often turned to grave robbing. With the new law, any unclaimed body could be used, as long as it was properly buried afterward.

If they don't use unclaimed bodies for medical research, what do they do with them now?

 

[Jedman67]

Jewish tradition is that funerals are simple affairs; both to honor the body of the deceased and the memory of their life, and the grieving of the surviving family.
Embalming is generally considered a big no; viewing much the same. The body is usually washed and dressed in a simple linen robe (for men a prayer shawl as well, with one of the fringes cut away. Generally the shawl used by the deceased in their life). Casket is traditionally plain wood, usually pine in the US.

The funeral service itself is supposed to take place in the presence of the deceased; the service usually starts with Psalms (the ones dealing with death, afterlife etc) eulogies and then transportation to the cemetary.

The average New York jewish burial is about $5,000, which is not insignificant, but also not crazy.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Why do they cut off one of the prayer shawl fringes, out of curiosity?

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Jedman67]

If my friend doesn't make it, can they go after his mom for the bill? She's on a fixed income. I don't even know how she can pay for even the simplest of arrangements. We have a GoFundMe, set up when we thought he'd be stuck with a huge bill (no job or insurance), and it's being arranged for that to go to her, but... argh! This is so insane.

We really need single-payer healthcare in the US, but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime. I can't help but think that if he could've gone to a doctor when he first started feeling sick, he might not be in organ failure right now.

You can probably set up a funeral trust or something, so that the money can only be used to cover those expenses. Talk to a lawyer about that.

 

[Jedman67]

^ Why do they cut off one of the prayer shawl fringes, out of curiosity?

Cheers,
-CM-

There is a religious obligation for jewish men to wear fringes (Tzitzit) at the corners of a four cornered garment. Since the Second Temple was destroyed ~2,000 years ago it became customary for men to wear a small shawl as an undershirt with the fringes ("Tallit Katan") and a larger shawl over the jacket for prayer services and special occasions ("Tallit Gadol"). It's become custom that men start wearing the larger shawl for prayers only once they get married; or for some, when they reach "marriageable age." Communities that originated in Germany or Spain have the custom of boys wearing the full shawl from the age of "Bar Mitzvah" or an "adult" according to Jewish Law ("Halakha") - 13 for boys, 12 for girls.
Tzitzit is considered to be a practice with great religious weight, being that it symbolizes ones observance of the entire Torah/Bible.
Going back to your question, having the deceased wear the shawl during burial is considered to be like "testimony" that he observed all the commandments during his lifetime; cutting away a corner signifies that the shawl (or specifically, the fringes) is a commandment for the living, and not the dead.

 

[Commander Troi]

Thank you all for your input! I did a little research on the laws in our state and found some low-cost/free legal aid info as well. I've passed all that on to the person working with his mom.

 

[Mrs. Silvercrest]

Well, we had to deal with this recently. At least in our state when you have someone in a nursing type home you have to have a plan for what to do with them once they die. So we found ourselves planning my dad's death 2 years before it happened. We as a family had decided that cremation was the way to go. Though, for dad he served his country for 20 years and he had a free burial at a Military cemetery all we had to do was get him cremated. So we did. And having that planned in advance made life so much easier. He had a very nice service with the gun salute and mom got a folded flag and they played taps. It all went fine. We have mom who is also in a nursing type home all set to be cremated and she can be buried with my dad when the time comes for free. So that was a load off in many ways. But my husband and I we are going to be cremated and have our ashes spread. I for one don't go in for the big service with everyone crying. I want to be remembered with a walk and then just the people I want there and off I go! It is not the expensive either. We found a place that it was less than $800 dollars. And they take care of everything! Anyway, that is what our plan is. Don't know if this helps you or not?

 

[Colonel Midnight]

There is a religious obligation for jewish men to wear fringes (Tzitzit) at the corners of a four cornered garment. Since the Second Temple was destroyed ~2,000 years ago it became customary for men to wear a small shawl as an undershirt with the fringes ("Tallit Katan") and a larger shawl over the jacket for prayer services and special occasions ("Tallit Gadol"). It's become custom that men start wearing the larger shawl for prayers only once they get married; or for some, when they reach "marriageable age." Communities that originated in Germany or Spain have the custom of boys wearing the full shawl from the age of "Bar Mitzvah" or an "adult" according to Jewish Law ("Halakha") - 13 for boys, 12 for girls.
Tzitzit is considered to be a practice with great religious weight, being that it symbolizes ones observance of the entire Torah/Bible.
Going back to your question, having the deceased wear the shawl during burial is considered to be like "testimony" that he observed all the commandments during his lifetime; cutting away a corner signifies that the shawl (or specifically, the fringes) is a commandment for the living, and not the dead.

Interesting, thanks! I find stuff like that to be a bit… fascinating.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Velocity]

"don't want no fancy funeral, just one like ol' King Tut"
Driving around in the cemetery, you see all sorts of mausoleums, big stones, flat plaques, etc. I told my kids I would like something dramatic like a big statue of an angel waving a flaming sword or something along those lines, but will probably just get a matching bronze plaque next to my husband's. I'll never see it anyway, so that's ok. I guess.

 

[DonIago]

I assume with the statue of the angel waving a flaming sword that the sword will actually be a perpetual flame?

 

[oldtrekkie]

The thing is, whether you're in a mass grave or in a zillion-dollar mausoleum, you're exactly in the same state... dead.

 

[Oddish]

Hard to argue with that.

Bodies should be treated with respect, I think, but the good of the living should receive priority. Since mass graves are unhealthy, and fancy mausoleums consume resources, neither's a good idea.