Full Circle Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Christopher]

I've discussed this a bit over on the Chakotay/Seven thread in the Voyager section, so I won't belabor the point, but the setup in Human Error is enough for me, following on as it does from Unimatrix Zero and Seven's reminder that she once experienced love and romance.

It takes two to tango. Seven may have been interested in Chakotay since "Human Error," but they didn't begin having any actual mutual romantic interaction until "Endgame."

The ending of the relationship with Chakotay in the book literally comes out of nowhere, and is done for a very strange bit of reasoning. "We're not going to be on Voyager, so I'm dumping you." Huh? And as hard as Chakotay fights to keep her when she tries to break things off in Endgame, it struck me as out of character for him to give up so easily in Homecoming.

Going from "We're stranded on a ship together in hostile space and may not see home again in our lifetimes" to "We're home and can go back to our old lives" is a HUGE life change. It's not remotely unreasonable that people would reassess a lot of things in their lives.

Besides, I don't agree that Chakotay fought hard to keep her. All he did was urge her not to make a hasty decision and give up on pursuing a relationship because she was afraid of getting hurt. It's not that he was madly and devotedly in love with her, just that he was invested enough in their nascent relationship that he didn't want her to abandon it for no good reason.

That was one of many things I didn't care for in the book, and hardly the biggest failing of the plot. But it was very much a "clearing of the decks" type plot moment, where the plot drove the action of the character rather than the other way around.

Everything you say about the end of the C/7 relationship in Homecoming describes what I think about its beginning in "Endgame." Having Chakotay reciprocate Seven's interest was a blatant case of the plot driving the character. It came out of nowhere and was arbitrarily tacked on to give Chakotay, who had ceased to have any personality whatsoever once Jeri Taylor left the show, something to do in the finale. I couldn't believe in their relationship, so I was glad to see it brought to an end so quickly and efficiently.

Full Circle, on the other hand, finally gives us the Janeway/Chakotay romantic subplot that the show would never quite commit to, and it's a pity that Janeway's death prevents further exploration of the idea.

I agree with the first part. That relationship was one that had an effective groundwork laid for it in the show, so it was a natural outgrowth of the established characterizations. However, I submit that Janeway's death did not prevent further exploration of the idea, because Chakotay's arc in much of FC is all about how he reacts to losing her. That is definitely an exploration of the idea of their relationship. The end of a loved one's life is not the end of your feelings for them or the effect they have on you.

 

[andersonh1]

I'll stick with replying to this so as not to drag the thread off topic.

I agree with the first part. That relationship was one that had an effective groundwork laid for it in the show, so it was a natural outgrowth of the established characterizations. However, I submit that Janeway's death did not prevent further exploration of the idea, because Chakotay's arc in much of FC is all about how he reacts to losing her. That is definitely an exploration of the idea of their relationship. The end of a loved one's life is not the end of your feelings for them or the effect they have on you.

The book explores the effect of the loss on Chakotay certainly, but not an actual, full-bore romantic relationship between Chakotay and Janeway, which is what I was lamenting. I have no problem with Chakotay and Seven, as I've said, but I'll freely admit that given the close relationship we saw over the course of the series that Chakotay and Janeway seem like a far better match. I'd have enjoyed seeing the two of them as a couple, and how the other characters reacted to that.

I agree that the idea of a Janeway/Chakotay romance is explored more than we've seen before, or at least more than I've seen. I have no idea if the other Voyager novels address the issue or not. And the loss of Janeway does provide some good material for exploring and developing Chakotay as a character.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Andersonh1,

Thanks for your posts. I'm so glad to hear that you're enjoying Full Circle. FWIW I agree with Christopher that the C/7 relationship was an example of plot driving character and came on much to abruptly to be taken seriously. As to its equally abrupt ending, all I will say is that it can be very difficult as an author to determine the best way to move forward at times. I've been justifiably criticized for some equally abrupt choices in FC, with regards to characters and plot threads developed in the first four relaunch books. I stand by my choices, but I certainly understand if they didn't work for everyone.

I also hope that some of the new folks do grow on you over time. With the loss of Janeway and Tuvok, future stories were going to require more personnel. I wouldn't expect everyone to warm to them right away, but hopefully as time goes on they'll earn their place among the crew.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Unworthy.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer

 

[andersonh1]

I also hope that some of the new folks do grow on you over time. With the loss of Janeway and Tuvok, future stories were going to require more personnel. I wouldn't expect everyone to warm to them right away, but hopefully as time goes on they'll earn their place among the crew.

I think "interlopers" was too strong a word. It would be more accurate to say that I have more emotional attachment to the crew I got to know on the TV series, while the new characters are just that, and I have no attachment to them as yet. Although Cambridge has grown on me, particularly in the final scenes with Chakotay. I particularly enjoyed his comment to the admiral about not wasting his time in future when the outcome was preordained.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Unworthy.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer

I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

[Tom Riley]

Although Cambridge has grown on me, particularly in the final scenes with Chakotay. I particularly enjoyed his comment to the admiral about not wasting his time in future when the outcome was preordained.

Cambridge has already grown on me too. Idk about other people, but I actually liked when he was doing his own thing and not being all by the book and stuff. It made him more interesting than the average guy. I want Unworthy to be out already...

 

[Tino]

Sorry. Double posting.

 

[Tino]

I want Unworthy to be out already...

Same here. And if it's as excellent as "Full Circle", I hope Kirsten Beyer can write us some more. Which I'm pretty sure she will when a) the sales are right, b) the fan-reaction is positive (so far I've heard seldom complains) and c) her schedule allows it (which I certainly hope).

About the money ... I have no idea what an author gets for a story. A Star Trek-author probably has to write more than two books/year to survive, right?[/QUOTE]

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I want Unworthy to be out already...

A Star Trek-author probably has to write more than two books/year to survive, right?

[/QUOTE]

Assuming they want to avoid being torn to shreds by us demanding and insaitable fans, yes

 

[Welshie]

Although Cambridge has grown on me, particularly in the final scenes with Chakotay. I particularly enjoyed his comment to the admiral about not wasting his time in future when the outcome was preordained.

Cambridge has already grown on me too. Idk about other people, but I actually liked when he was doing his own thing and not being all by the book and stuff. It made him more interesting than the average guy. I want Unworthy to be out already...

Does anyone else notice that he seems to be a bizarre amalgam of Dr. House and the actor who plays him (Hugh Laurie)? The name (Laurie graduated from Cambridge), personality, disdain for authority and his unconventional methods all seemed awfully familiar.

 

[Paris]

Does anyone else notice that he seems to be a bizarre amalgam of Dr. House and the actor who plays him (Hugh Laurie)? The name (Laurie graduated from Cambridge), personality, disdain for authority and his unconventional methods all seemed awfully familiar.

Actually, I believe that's the point. I forget where I read it, but I believe this was Kirsten's intent when creating the character .

 

[Tom Riley]

Does anyone else notice that he seems to be a bizarre amalgam of Dr. House and the actor who plays him (Hugh Laurie)? The name (Laurie graduated from Cambridge), personality, disdain for authority and his unconventional methods all seemed awfully familiar.

I've seen lots of people (including myself) say the same thing lol.

Actually, I believe that's the point. I forget where I read it, but I believe this was Kirsten's intent when creating the character .

I saw her say that too... I don't remember which thread it was in either...

 

[DimesDan]

Does anyone else notice that he seems to be a bizarre amalgam of Dr. House and the actor who plays him (Hugh Laurie)? The name (Laurie graduated from Cambridge), personality, disdain for authority and his unconventional methods all seemed awfully familiar.

I've seen lots of people (including myself) say the same thing lol.

Actually, I believe that's the point. I forget where I read it, but I believe this was Kirsten's intent when creating the character .

I saw her say that too... I don't remember which thread it was in either...

Possibly the cast the characters thread/sticky which is at the top of the this section

 

[Defcon]

^Actually it's in Post #75 of this thread right here.

 

[DimesDan]

^Actually it's in Post #75 of this thread right here.

Fair dos, I got a wee bit confused as the fact that Hugh Cambridge is based on Hugh Laurie/Gregory House had been mentioned in that thread aswell - I even said something about it as well.

 

[Tom Riley]

Possibly the cast the characters thread/sticky which is at the top of the this section

No, it wasn't there. Although lots of people there all posted about how they saw him as House/Hugh Laurie.

 

[Defcon]

^Look two posts above you, that's the only time Kirsten talked about it on this board (I used Advanced Search and searched for every post in which the word Laurie was used by her account).

 

[Paris]

Excellent recon ! You'll make a top notch operative for Section 31 someday

 

[Tom Riley]

^Look two posts above you, that's the only time Kirsten talked about it on this board (I used Advanced Search and searched for every post in which the word Laurie was used by her account).

I saw, those weren't there when I hit to reply. I took forever to submit my reply

 

[casey]

I haven't posted in a while, but I thought I would come out of hiding to comment on Full Circle.

This is the first thing Voyager related that I have read, excluding the wonderful entry in Myriad Universes. I have never really been a fan of Voyager. I really disliked it when it was on, but have grown to appreciate it as I have seen episodes on Spike, but I haven't seen all of the episodes yet.

Initially I had a hard time getting into the book, but once I did I couldn't put it out down and read the whole thing in two sittings. I found it to be engaging and well written. I find myself caring about Chakotay for the first time in my life. And I enjoyed the Klingon stuff. In general Klingon stuff bores me and I inclinded to skip over it. But I found it interesting, and probably one of the strengths in the book.

Anyhow, Ms. Beyer, well done. I will be anxiously waiting for Unworthy. And now I am interested to go back and watch all of Voyager. You may have created a new VOY fan. And that is quite the accomplishment indeed.

 

[adamczar]

I am (as always) late to the party... but something I have been enjoying doing after reading the latest Trek novel is to come on to these threads and read everyone's interaction with the author. So thanks, Kirsten and all the authors for being so interactive along the way.

I hope it's okay if I just throw my voice into the chorus of people who are saying this novel made Voyager matter again. I was cautiously optimistic... cautious because of the previous Voyager novels (nothing against Golden's writing, I'm sure the editorial side of things was a lot different back then), and optimistic because of Kirsten's powerful String Theory entry. Anyway, I was totally relieved and thrilled the more I read. This has been described as a "love letter" to Voyager/Janeway fans, and it surely was. I actually slowed down at parts to savor the prose.

A few quick things:

-Starting it off with a Benjamin Linus quote... once I read this, my "cautious optimism" just became regular "optimism." I found myself wondering if the narrative would read anything like Lost, and in parts it did, with the various flashbacks and cliffhangers. I love Lost's style of storytelling, so seeing the same kind of style in Trek was a treat.

-I (still) get chills when I think about the moment I realized what B'Elanna's plan was and what it meant. Her and Miral's names stuck out like sore thumbs on the casuality report in A Singular Destiny, and for a while after I finished that book I kept thinking about that list, and how sad it was, and how much I looked forward to FC explaining how it happened. To realize I fell for the scheme just like I was supposed to was an awesome experience.

-Tuvok's reaction to being told of Janeway's death made my cry, as did B'Elanna and Miral's Sto-Vo-Kor cry. I could feel the walls of the shuttle shake, so I know the warriors in Sto-Vo-Kor did as well.

-Speaking of... Having one of my long time favorites (PAD) knock off one of my favorite characters in (what I felt) was a "silly" way was an odd feeling. I never got into the discussions much more than that, but after reading this book I am put totally at ease. I always appreciated the decision as a creative one even if I "disagreed," but now I am fully on board. Thank you Kirsten and the entire creative team for taking such a huge risk for the sake of good storytelling.

-It's been said a thousand times, but I finally love Chakotay. I made fun of him a lot during Voyager's run, but damn if this novel didn't give him more development than the entire run. I hurt for him during that scene where you describe his weight loss and deteriorating physical condition. It makes me want to go back and watch some old Chakotay episodes, knowing what will happen to him in the future.

-The passage about marriage that Owen spoke (don't have the book handly else I'd refer to a page number) will soon be hung on my wall. I got married 2 weeks ago and I had my new wife (who is not a Trek fan) read that passage, and we both smiled.

-I was surprised that there was no follow up with Neelix. Naiomi (I think) mentions how she'll tell Neelix, and I was expecting at least a brief interlude there, just so we could say hello to Neelix again. Just curious if there plans to bring him into future stories, especially now that they are going back to his neck of the woods?


It's a shame that stories like this were not told during the show's run, however I am so thrilled and very grateful that they are being told at all. Most of the time, the characters in the entire "Destiny" arc have been so real and true that it's as if I can see the scenes playing out just as if they had been actually filmed anyway.

So, once again, thanks to Kirsten and the entire creative team for another solid entry. It's very evident you all are not in it for just the paycheck, but... you all deserve raises, anyway.