Full Circle Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Brendan Moody]

^Two chapters totaling about 30 pages take place during Destiny.

 

[JD]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

 

[LightningStorm]

I finally got my hands on this book today! And before even reading the first page... I'm prejudging this book as a 5 star book based solely on the quote before the Prologue.

"Destiny... is a fickle bitch." --Benjamin Linus

NICE!! Quoting Lost! I love it.

 

[Pegaritaville]

Oh, and Janeway was Janeway, for damn sure, and it isn't for nothing that even after all the arguing I've done about her death and how Before Dishonor was worthwhile I'd still like to say, for the revelation that she was trying to help her crew by flying off to the Borg cube alone, a simple thank you. It brought a warmth to her death that was, while technically unnecessary in my view, greatly appreciated.

This was one of the things I didn't care for in the book. I've always felt Janeway's heroics were over-the-top to start with, and giving Janeway an added reason for going off and facing the Borg only added to her sainthood. I know (hard not to, given the multitude of dead Janeway threads) some people felt her death wasn't dignified enough, but I kind of liked the idea that she died just doing her job. Personally, I would have preferred it if she met her demise by slipping in the sonic shower or something. I do like the irony of that by running interference for the sake of her crew, she may have inadvertently made things worse, though.


But overall, I enjoyed the book. I'm intrigued by some of the new characters (especially Cambridge and Eden) and look forward to seeing what awaits them in the DQ. Eden's background should make things all the more interesting. I'm also looking forward to seeing what's in store for Seven and Chakotay (hope he's done wallowing in self-pity). I have no idea where that particular plotline is going.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Just finished. This is one of the more emotionally laden and complicated stories Trek has ever given us, and if nothing else, I highly commend the ambition and care on display here.

Thank you.

There were two big problems I had with the book, though. First, one of my real annoyances with Golden's relaunch was how it took dramatic possibilities/plotlines from the end of the series and got rid of them as rapidly as possible(...)I realize, as an author, given the opportunity to write characters you believe in and are fascinated by and no particular compunction to keep the others around, it's understandable to take that option, but it doesn't make it less annoying to read. Especially since none of the main characters from the series were killed, sort of blatantly reinstating the "TV show characters are invincible even though everyone else drops like flies!" stereotype that Janeway's death worked so hard to dispel.

Very valid point. And because you personally have made such compelling arguments over the last few months about all things Full Circle, I want to offer you some of my thoughts on a few of these things. This is not meant to mitigate or justify anything you didn't like. But in thinking about them, you might find other, more interesting ways I could have solved these problems or realize that there were only so many choices here and none of them were particularly good. In every case I tried to take the least evil, if that makes sense, but I get why it might not read that way.

First off, you are lumping all things Golden into one pile and while the cumulative impact might dictate that, I personally considered each and every thread on its merits before I made an individual choice regarding their resolution.

First let's talk plot. We've got a rogue Changeling and we've got the Klingon story. We just did two books on a Changeling. Changelings, while fabulous characters were done ad naseum in DS9 and continue to play an admittedly limited role in the DS9 relaunch. I see no compelling reason to make that story any bigger. It's not particularly "Voyager" but it is something that has to be resolved. I chose the Klingon plot over the Changeling plot because I felt it had more potential for emotional resonance for the characters involved. YMMV.

Characters: Golden gave us five new senior staff members, Admiral Montgomery, and the development of Libby.

Yes, Libby and Harry break up early on, but that's hardly the end of Libby's story, or her impact on Harry. I mean she does come back and helps Harry find a little closure.

Montomery is there, beginning to end. Just because he's not going to the DQ, he's also not going anywhere as the Admiral running things from the AQ. I'm not sure why you got the sense he was being phased out.

Patel lives on.

Astall's only issue is that she is constitutionally incapable of conflict. Interesting to think about but hard to use in a story. We always need obstacles. They can come from inside an individual or outside the ship. What do you do with a character who can never, by definition, be an obstacle unless you change her basic definition?

Jarem Kaz was a great character and I thoroughly enjoyed giving him as much time as I could here. But he's a joined Trill. Another species that has been explored quite thoroughly in DS9. We did Trill as a World of DS9 for crying out loud. This limits the numbers of stories we can tell about him that would not be repetitive. Or, we could begin to explore another race we've never delved into before. So we get Doctor Sharak, a Tamarian instead.

Akolo Tare was challenging in that her only developed personal arc in Golden's books was that she was raped by a hologram. I find that too emotionally difficult to really contemplate going into so that was that.

Lyssa Campbell was completely unobjectionable. No reason to keep her. No reason not to. I needed women warriors on that planet, though, and she was an obvious choice. Also, going forward and looking at the total crew, I really felt we could use another new male officer to balance some of the female officers. (Yes, once again, I have betrayed the sisterhood.)

So of the seven discussed, three have the potential for ongoing development, one transferred, and three died (two of them in a battle that killed half the crew). When you pile it all up it may look like it was all conveniently dismissed. It wasn't. It was always weighing what we had vs. what we needed. When what we had worked with the bigger picture, it stayed. When it didn't, or too severly limited possibilties, we went a different direction.

Finally, as to why they died instead of other series regulars... are you kidding me? Permeating the whole book is the death of Janeway. If any of the other regulars are going to die, they're going to get their own damn book. They've earned it.

Second, the organization of this book was wacky. It felt like two separate novels, not only in timeline but also in manner of execution.

Would it suprise you to learn that it was originally developed as two books? It was. Two 100,000 word stories. However, when those outlines were presented, I was asked by my editor to turn these two books into one, containing much of what I had developed characterwise, but ending with the launch of the fleet. So basically 200,000 words of material had to become no more than 135,000 words and still have the same emotional resonace and tell the same story.

I suppose I could have turned him down and let this whole thing be someone else's problem. I did argue that I believed the Voyager fans deserved as much material as we could give them. I think he overruled that choice because he felt strongly that it was critical we establish the new direction by the end of this book. So that was a trade-off.

Now imagine two separate books....one that is the Klingon adventure and one that is the exploration of Janeway's death, the aftermath of Destiny and the builiding of the fleet. I wouldn't have told either story differently. The linear approach made sense the first time and the non-linear approach made emotional sense to me for the second. I think it's in the forcing them together that they become jarring and the cutting, particularly in part two.

This was not my first choice. Still, perhaps I should have revisited the structure of part two. I originally wrote it in chronological order but felt that told that way, it lacked any sense of suspense and emotional impact. So I framed it and did flashbacks, realizing that from time to time I was going to have to go outside Chakotay's head even though he was the frame. I feel the roughness too, but even if I had another year to work on it, I'm not sure what exactly I would have done differently.

I think there is something to the fact that it's jarring as you go along, but when you get to the end you feel like you're in the right place. I always felt that way and still can't imagine what I would cut or rearrange without losing something vital to someone. There's also something okay with me in the fact that it's not pretty, but it's right. As always, YMMV.

There was also a lot of weirdness of flow in other ways. It always bugs me when there's a whole scene about one character telling another character something, but the author skips over what they're talking about, and we got that a fair amount in this book. The idea that Batiste wanted to send Voyager back to the Delta Quadrant wouldn't have been any less cool if we'd heard about it 100 pages earlier, when he was talking about it to everyone else except us.

I do that a lot don't I? I think it comes from my personal love of tension and trying to figure out how tight I can pull a string. I like these smaller puzzles that people might pause and try to figure out at the time but will get the answer to soon enough if they couldn't. I'll watch it though. I actually don't think I did it even once in Unworthy. You'll let me know, though, right?

And there was also a lot of skipping time to start a scene, only to then narrate within that scene the events that had come to pass to get there (like when Torres showed up on Voyager towards the beginning, only to then describe her escape from the Klingon ship). In and of itself, it wouldn't have been a problem, but on top of the rapid pace of the novel and the general disjointedness of it all, it just added to the scatter.

Yes. Absolutely. And those were scenes that would have happened in real time if I had 100,000 words to tell each half of the story instead of 65,000.

Again...these are perfectly valid complaints. But now you know where my head was as I worked these problems.

Now, that all said? Overall?

This book was fantastic.

After the preamble, you could have knocked me over when I read this. Talk about burying the lead. Glad we got here, though.

Oh, and Janeway was Janeway, for damn sure, and it isn't for nothing that even after all the arguing I've done about her death and how Before Dishonor was worthwhile I'd still like to say, for the revelation that she was trying to help her crew by flying off to the Borg cube alone, a simple thank you. It brought a warmth to her death that was, while technically unnecessary in my view, greatly appreciated.

I expect most people who really liked BD will feel it was unnecessary. Honestly, that was one part of BD, however, that troubled me deeply. I needed it for my own closure. It might have been a little selfish on my part, but that's one of the places where my love for Janeway trumps my literary detachment. Also, it ended up being critical for Chakotay's emotional journey.

Oh, and you're welcome.

I can't wait for what's next.

I just want to say again how much I appreciate your thoughtful review, the good and the less good, and I truly hope you enjoy Unworthy.

Oh, and PS? "Voyager will return to the Delta Quadrant over my dead body"? Feeling a little that day, huh?

Not just that day.

Best,
Kirsten

 

[neogothboy74]

I've had my copy for over a week, but I most likely won't get around to reading it anytime soon. I've decided to devote this summer to catching up on some old favorites, as I've devoted almost all of the last 2 years to just Trek. I am very excited to read 'Full Circle' though, and I loved Kirsten's Voyager - String Theory book.

 

[Thrawn]

First let's talk plot. We've got a rogue Changeling and we've got the Klingon story. We just did two books on a Changeling. Changelings, while fabulous characters were done ad naseum in DS9 and continue to play an admittedly limited role in the DS9 relaunch. I see no compelling reason to make that story any bigger. It's not particularly "Voyager" but it is something that has to be resolved. I chose the Klingon plot over the Changeling plot because I felt it had more potential for emotional resonance for the characters involved. YMMV.

Characters: <<long post cut for space>>

...

So of the seven discussed, three have the potential for ongoing development, one transferred, and three died (two of them in a battle that killed half the crew). When you pile it all up it may look like it was all conveniently dismissed. It wasn't. It was always weighing what we had vs. what we needed. When what we had worked with the bigger picture, it stayed. When it didn't, or too severly limited possibilties, we went a different direction.

Believe me - I had no great love for a lot of Golden's developments, and you mentioned almost all of the reasons I had for being fairly annoyed at her creative direction. I thought Kaz was repetitive, I thought the Changeling was not very Voyager, I thought Lyssa was bland... I'm with you on all of that, and I agree that where we're at, post-Full Circle, is substantially more interesting. Perhaps it was just the rapid pacing of the book that you explained below, but especially right at the beginning, it had a little of the feel of "gone, dead, resolved, over, moving ON..." going too fast.

But yeah, upon contemplation, I agree pretty thoroughly with your reasons for discontinuing the stories that you did. I think maybe the one thing I would've changed was perhaps having Harry's initial breakup with Libby come later; it seemed weirdly sudden right at the beginning of the book, given we left them in a troubled but still pretty optimistic place in Enemy Of My Enemy.

Finally, as to why they died instead of other series regulars... are you kidding me? Permeating the whole book is the death of Janeway. If any of the other regulars are going to die, they're going to get their own damn book. They've earned it.

Again, I agree, it was just the contrast that was hard not to notice. Introduced by Golden? Greater than 50% chance of transferring or dying. Introduced by the show? 0%. Good reasons for all the choices, but it does produce some difficulties along the way.

Would it suprise you to learn that it was originally developed as two books? It was. Two 100,000 word stories. However, when those outlines were presented, I was asked by my editor to turn these two books into one, containing much of what I had developed characterwise, but ending with the launch of the fleet. So basically 200,000 words of material had to become no more than 135,000 words and still have the same emotional resonace and tell the same story.

I was actually going to ask this question, but I thought it would end up sounding snotty if I was totally off-base. Yes, it felt EXACTLY like it was developed as two separate books, and I think I'm going to think about it that way in my head from now on. The first book fits so beautifully right in between KRAD's A Burning House and A Time For War/Peace as part of the arc of the Klingon Empire that it feels weird to attach it to a post-Destiny story as well; the tone of the two is so different. The tie-in with the hologram is so cool.

I suppose I could have turned him down and let this whole thing be someone else's problem. I did argue that I believed the Voyager fans deserved as much material as we could give them. I think he overruled that choice because he felt strongly that it was critical we establish the new direction by the end of this book. So that was a trade-off.

I can see both sides of this one. I think it would be weird to have a new author take over and then have the huge shift in creative direction happen between her first and second books; that would've been quite jarring.

I think there is something to the fact that it's jarring as you go along, but when you get to the end you feel like you're in the right place. I always felt that way and still can't imagine what I would cut or rearrange without losing something vital to someone. There's also something okay with me in the fact that it's not pretty, but it's right. As always, YMMV.

And this is, much more concisely, sort of what I was trying to get across in my review; it's jarring as you go along, but when you get to the end you feel like you're in the right place. I finished the book completely satisfied with the journeys everyone had been on, even though while I was reading it, it was often jarring and I had to keep flipping around to make sure I knew where I was.

I do that a lot don't I? I think it comes from my personal love of tension and trying to figure out how tight I can pull a string. I like these smaller puzzles that people might pause and try to figure out at the time but will get the answer to soon enough if they couldn't. I'll watch it though. I actually don't think I did it even once in Unworthy. You'll let me know, though, right?

A lot of authors I love do it a lot! And, like I said, on its own, not really a problem; just kind of frustrating because of the other jumpiness. And, well, sure, why not!

Yes. Absolutely. And those were scenes that would have happened in real time if I had 100,000 words to tell each half of the story instead of 65,000.

Again...these are perfectly valid complaints. But now you know where my head was as I worked these problems.

Fair enough. And thank you tremendously for explaining your thought processes here; I don't think authors owe their fans much of anything, and it's a real pleasure to have you and so many of the other authors on here address posts like mine. It always makes me understand the books better or differently, and that's what I'm here for. Again, thank you.

I just want to say again how much I appreciate your thoughtful review, the good and the less good, and I truly hope you enjoy Unworthy.

Me too! I can't wait!


If I might trouble you to answer one last question, out of curiosity, what's the timeline of Unworthy's development? Is it done and written already, was it written 6 months ago... I'm curious, since it seems like Full Circle has been in development so long, how far ahead of schedule you were on this one. And how much was it affected by the editor changeover? I'm not a writer, but I'd imagine switching editors halfway through the process might be a bit frustrating.

 

[Thrawn]

I finally got my hands on this book today! And before even reading the first page... I'm prejudging this book as a 5 star book based solely on the quote before the Prologue.

"Destiny... is a fickle bitch." --Benjamin Linus

NICE!! Quoting Lost! I love it.

Yeah, I had the same reaction. So totally perfect for the book, too.

 

[HIj'Qa]

how's this for a chronology mashup?

2378
HOMECOMING (VGR)
- Chapters 1-3
• February 2378 – [Chapters 4-20]
{JANUARY} “WIDOW’S WALK” (VGR, SNW VI)
- first entry
• March 2378 – [second – fourth entries]
“FRAGMENT” (VGR, SNW V)
“HOMEMADE” (VGR, SNW VI)
{FEBRUARY 17} “FINAL ENTRY” (VGR, SNW V)
- final entry (see primary entry in 2353)
HOMECOMING (VGR)
- Chapters 4-20 (see primary entry, above)
THE FARTHER SHORE (VGR)
ADJUSTMENTS (VOY, SNW 10)
{MARCH} “WIDOW’S WALK” (VGR, SNW VI)
- second – fourth entries (see primary entry, above)
“COFFEE WITH A FRIEND” (VGR, SNW 8)
“SEDUCED” (CHAKOTAY, TFTCT)
• 2344 – [sections 1-11]
SPIRIT WALK #1: OLD WOUNDS (VGR)
• 2375 – [Prologue]
SPIRIT WALK #2: ENEMY OF MY ENEMY (VGR)
{STARDATE 55595.4 TO 55600.7} CAPTAIN’S PERIL (ST)
BRAVE NEW WORLD (MYRIAD UNIVERSES: ECHOES AND REFRACTIONS)
• Alternate Timeline
{SEPTEMBER} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 1 - 15
• 2379 -81
{OCTOBER} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 16 - 17 (see primary entry, above)
A TIME TO BE BORN (TNG)
A TIME TO DIE (TNG)
A TIME TO SOW (TNG)
2379
A TIME TO HARVEST (TNG)
A TIME TO LOVE (TNG)
A TIME TO HATE (TNG)
'TIL DEATH (THE SKY'S THE LIMIT)
A TIME TO KILL (TNG)
A TIME TO HEAL (TNG)
AFTER THE FALL (NF #15)
- “After . . .”
• 2377 – [“Before . . .”]
{STARDATE 56265, APRIL 7} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Flashback (see primary entry in 2378)
A TIME FOR WAR, A TIME FOR PEACE (TNG)
- Chapters 1-15
• about two weeks later – [Epilogue sections 1-6]
• about seven weeks later – [Epilogue section 7]
{STARDATE 56344.5} ALIEN SPOTLIGHT: BORG (ST IDW GRAPHIC)
MISSING IN ACTION (NF #16)
TURNAROUND (NF IDW GRAPHIC)
{STARDATE 56828.8} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapter 1 (see primary entry, below)
{STARDATE 56844.9} STAR TREK: NEMESIS (TNG NOVELIZATION)
- Prologue; Chapters 1-10; 11§1-4
• about five weeks later – [Chapter 11§5-8]
“FINAL FLIGHT” (TNG, SNW 8)
- Sections 1, 3, 5, 8 (see primary entry, below)
{JUNE} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 18 (see primary entry in 2378)
A TIME FOR WAR, A TIME FOR PEACE (TNG)
- Epilogue §1-6 (see primary entry, above)
{STARDATE 56934.1} ON THE SPOT (THE SKY'S THE LIMIT)
DEATH IN WINTER (TNG)
“IMPROVISATIONS ON THE OPAL SEA: A TALE OF DUBIOUS CREDIBILITY” (RIKER, TFTCT)
THE VERY MODEL (TNG, SNW 10)
TRUST YOURSELF WHEN ALL MEN DOUBT YOU (THE SKY'S THE LIMIT)
“FINAL FLIGHT” (TNG, SNW 8)
- Sections 2, 4, 6-7
• about three weeks earlier – [sections 1, 3, 5, 8]
{STARDATE 56941.1 – 56941.4} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapters 2-4 (see primary entry, below)
STAR TREK: NEMESIS (TNG NOVELIZATION)
- Chapter 11 §5-8 (see primary entry, above)
{STARDATE 56944.2} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapter 5 (see primary entry, below)
A TIME FOR WAR, A TIME FOR PEACE (TNG)
- Epilogue section 7 (see primary entry, above)
{STARDATE 56979.5 – 57023.3} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapters 6-24
• six weeks earlier – [Chapter 1]
• two weeks earlier – [Chapters 2-4]
• less than two weeks earlier – [Chapter 5]

2380
VULCAN'S SOUL #3: EPIPHANY (ST)
- Epilogue (see primary entry in 2377)
{STARDATE 57024.0 – 57080.6} THE RED KING (TITAN #2)
- Chapters 1-3; 5-22; Coda
• 2349 – [Chapter 4]
{JANUARY} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 1-6
• March – [Chapters 7-12]
• May – [Chapters 13-17]
• August – [Chapters 18-21]
• October – [Chapters 22-24]
• December – [Chapters 25-28]
“THE CALLING” (P&C)
{STARDATE 57137.8 – 57223.6} ORION’S HOUNDS (TITAN #3)
{MARCH} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 7-12 (see primary entry, above)
{LATE APRIL} RESISTANCE (TNG)
{EARLY MAY} Q & A (TNG)
{MAY} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 13-17 (see primary entry, above)
SWORD OF DAMOCLES (TITAN #4)
BRIGADOON (SPEC, SNW 10)
{JUNE} BEFORE DISHONOR (TNG)
{JUNE} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Prologue, Chapter 19 (see primary entry in 2378)
{STARDATE 57465.6} CAPTAIN’S BLOOD (ST)
{JULY 23} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Unregistered vessel (see primary entry in 2378)
{AUGUST} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- USS Titan (see primary entry in 2378)
{AUGUST} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 18-21 (see primary entry, above)
{AUGUST} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 23 (see primary entry in 2378)
{SEPTEMBER 2380 - JANUARY 2381} GREATER THAN THE SUM (TNG)
{OCTOBER} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 22-24 (see primary entry, above)
{DECEMBER} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 25-28 (see primary entry, above)
CAPTAIN’S GLORY (ST)

2381
{FEBRUARY} DESTINY: GODS OF NIGHT
DESTINY: MERE MORTALS
DESTINY: LOST SOULS
• 2381 – [Epilogue]
{FEBRUARY} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 24 - 25 (see primary entry in 2378)
{FEBRUARY 16 - LATE APRIL} OVER A TORRENT SEA (TITAN #5)
- Prologue (see primary entry, below)
{LATE FEBRUARY} DESTINY: LOST SOULS
- Epilogue (see primary entry, above)
{MARCH} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 26 (see primary entry in 2378)
{APRIL} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 27 (see primary entry in 2378)
{LATE APRIL - 12 MAY} A SINGULAR DESTINY
{STARDATE 57585, MAY} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 20 -22 (see primary entry in 2378)
{MAY} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 28 - 34 (see primary entry in 2378)
{JUNE} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Epilogue (see primary entry in 2378)
{JULY 1 - AUGUST 4} OVER A TORRENT SEA (TITAN #5)
• late February - late April 2381– [Prologue]
“ONCE UPON A TRIBBLE” (VGR, SNW 8)

 

[ClayinCA]

I'm up to Chapter Six (which has made reading this thread difficult, because I really want to join in the discussion!), and thus far I have to say that I am really enjoying Full Circle a lot. I found Kirsten's comments (regarding this almost being two books at one point) kind of intriguing, because in all honesty, the only part of the book that I'm not particularly enjoying is the B'Elanna/Klingon plot, and if that had been its own book, I think I might have skipped it. But I think that I'm glad it didn't work out that way, because I'm very curious to see how this plotline that I'm not wild about is going to intersect with the rest of the storyline, which I'm enjoying very much. So I guess that's good!

As I've mentioned in other threads, I wasn't the biggest Voyager fan in the world, so I'm coming to this book almost cold - I haven't read any of the so-called "relaunch" books, and other than the finale, the last TV series episode I watched was somewhere in Season Five, I think. But I liked a lot of the characters, and the concept of the series always intrigued me, if not the execution, which (as I've said elsewhere) I think was pretty severely lacking most of the time; and to be honest, the death of Janeway was a left-field occurrence that made me want to see where Voyager fiction could possibly go next. Kirsten's comments in various threads hereabouts further made me want to give Full Circle a try, and so far I'm very glad I did, Klingon stuff notwithstanding.

As far as the characterization goes, again, I'm not a Voyager aficionado, but all the regulars from the series appear to be much more fleshed-out versions of the ones I remember from the episodes I watched; Chakotay in particular is coming across as the nuanced character I always wished he was on TV, and Tom Paris (my favourite of the human characters on Voyager) is similarly well-drawn. Haven't had too much of my beloved holo-Doctor or Seven of Nine yet, but I'm assuming they'll be well-represented; I really hope to see some depiction (in either this book or the next) of Seven/Annika's continued growth and evolution post-Destiny. And it's nice to see Kes get a mention.

As for the new characters, he's only had one "on-screen" appearance thus far, but I can't get enough of Hugh Cambridge, and I'm really interested to see where some of his idiosyncrasies come from, and how he'll interact with Chakotay as the story goes on. And Captain Afsarah Eden looks to be very interesting as well, and her relationship with her ex-husband offers a lot of possibilities.

So yeah, count me in as a fan of the book (well, what I've read of it so far! ) - I can't wait to see where this is going, and I'm already eagerly awaiting Unworthy.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Fair enough. And thank you tremendously for explaining your thought processes here; I don't think authors owe their fans much of anything, and it's a real pleasure to have you and so many of the other authors on here address posts like mine. It always makes me understand the books better or differently, and that's what I'm here for. Again, thank you.

For me it's not about owing the fans something. It just is really fun to discuss stuff in this kind of detail with people who are as interested in Trek fiction as I am. There aren't enough of us out there.

And it has been my pleasure.

If I might trouble you to answer one last question, out of curiosity, what's the timeline of Unworthy's development? Is it done and written already, was it written 6 months ago... I'm curious, since it seems like Full Circle has been in development so long, how far ahead of schedule you were on this one. And how much was it affected by the editor changeover? I'm not a writer, but I'd imagine switching editors halfway through the process might be a bit frustrating.

FC really was in development for what felt like ever. The actual writing of the text was six months which ended in September of 2008. We were doing revisions and final edits between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

I went straight from FC into Unworthy and the first draft was done Jan 15. The heavy lifting on the revisions was finished this past weekend but there are still a couple more editing stages before we're done. And believe it or not, that doesn't put us ahead of schedule. I think we're right on or a little behind. It's amazing to me, once a text is done, how long it takes for actual books to exist. But then again, I know nothing of the process that isn't my responsiblity so I just do what they ask and make sure I hit my deadlines.

As to switching editors, it was an emotional thing. I consider Marco a friend and was so very sad to see him go. I always enjoyed working with him. It was an intense process. The stressful part of switching to Margaret was simply getting used to a new system and new sensibilites mid-stream and being overwhelmed on her behalf by the sheer tonnage of her new responsibilities. She has done all of this with grace and professionalism that astounds me. She and Marco are very different. One is not good or bad. Both are passionate, but about different things. Every new professional interaction makes me look an my own work differently and that's always a good thing in the long run.

how's this for a chronology mashup?

Um... you scare the hell out of me...in a good way. And best I can tell it looks right. But then, I suck at math and timelines. Ask Bennett, who knows this after beta reading Full Circle and offering so many kind and patient corrections.

Best,
Kirsten

 

[KimMH]

I was very worried about reading it going in because I was afraid I would like it in spite of Janeway's death. Not to woory - I didn't like it.

I loved it! It felt like a true fangirl's book. It had been a while since I'd read any Voyager stuff and it felt like old home week again. And the timing was another thing that tipped me toward it - I had just read BD becasue of the hulabaloo over Janeway's death. To read FC so soon afterwards did add the warmth that Thrawn alludes to. It surely isn't closure - we'll all miss her the way we would miss any friend, but it helped a lot.

Now I have to go tiptoe into the Voy forum and try to spread a little of this love around. I'll be back if they chase me out with sticks . . .

 

[Christopher]

As for your chronology, Hij'Qa, mine (which is based on Kirsten's first draft) has a few differences from what you posted. I can confirm Ch. 1-17 as being in Sep/Oct '78. I can't find any reference in my MS copy to an April 7, '79 flashback or a stardate 56265. I have the Proxima flashbacks in Ch. 18 & 21 falling in late June '79, which I place about midway through the A Time To... series (I figure the time intervals between the four trilogies must be greater than stated in order for the series to cover a year). Then there's a flashback in Ch. 34 set during A Time for War/Peace, i.e. October '79. Next I have a Ch. 26 Paris/Torres flashback in May '80, just after Q & A and before Ch. 17 of AotF. (Ch. 13-16 of AotF take place at the start of May, Ch. 17 at the end.) My chrono agrees with yours on the rest of 2380, except that I have Ch. 23 going before the August portion of AotF, not after.

As for 2381, I have Ch. 24 actually coming a few days before the start of Destiny and Ch. 25 during it. Ch. 26 comes about a week before the Destiny epilogue, and right after the first scene of the Over a Torrent Sea prologue. Ch. 27 through the Voyager portion of Ch. 29 covers about the first three weeks of April, just after scene 2 of the OaTS prologue and just before A Singular Destiny. After ASD Ch. 16 comes scene 3 of the OaTS prologue, then comes Full Circle Ch. 29 (Chakotay portion), 20-22, and 30-31. Then comes ASD Ch. 17-20, then the remainder of FC.

 

[SStar]

Glad to hear it. You're going to get your wish, at least in Unworthy.

The more I dwell on this character, the more intrigued I am. I have this mental perception of Cambridge as a Hugh Laurie/House-esque type of character ...

the convention is to refer to him as Commander Paris rather than Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander.

I think I was thrown by a couple of lines in the latter part of the book where I expected him to be referred to as Lt. Cmdr rather than Cmdr but thanks for clearing that up.

I know if I was one of his friends, I'd be pissed. Indeed, more to come there as well.

And her friends. Remember it's not just about what happens to Miral, though that's paramount. It's also about putting the lives of the rest of the people she loves in danger because of Miral.

I wanted to add, although it may not have been your intention, but I liked how all the different threads of the story were woven around that of the Paris family - it felt like a supporting structure particularly in Part Two with the threads and POVs moving around so much. I did mentally read Parts One and Two as two quasi-seperate books; the non-linear approach with flashbacks actually reminded me of several Alias episodes. Could be that eased the transitions for me or I'm just easy to please!

Patience. Devi Patel is indeed continuing on with us and in time, she'll get more development as will Sharak.

I'm determined to get a hold of a copy of TNG episode 'Darmok' before Unworthy ... I wonder if I could ask another question? Does Lt. Barclay's attendance at Batiste's briefing mean he's also with the DQ fleet? (Apologies if this is in the book already, I really need to read it at a normal speed again!).

I've just read your reply to Thrawn on your logic behind the decisions for character arcs and thought it was very interesting, particularly Astall and Kaz. Thank you for sharing that.

One last thing.

(Yes, once again, I have betrayed the sisterhood.)

I just did a mental tot-up and I get six female characters - main characters or on the Senior Staff. Can't complain about that!

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Now I have to go tiptoe into the Voy forum and try to spread a little of this love around. I'll be back if they chase me out with sticks . . .

Many thanks! Now...wear something warm and take emergency rations. You never know.

The more I dwell on this character, the more intrigued I am. I have this mental perception of Cambridge as a Hugh Laurie/House-esque type of character ...

As do I in my secret heart of hearts. But not just House. Think Mr. Palmer in Emma Thompson's version of "Sense and Sensibility." He practically steals that movie for me.

I'm determined to get a hold of a copy of TNG episode 'Darmok' before Unworthy ...

Oh, do. It's one of my all time favorite TNG episodes. My dvd of it actually skips sections after watching it too many times. God, I'm a geek.

I wonder if I could ask another question? Does Lt. Barclay's attendance at Batiste's briefing mean he's also with the DQ fleet?

Yes. He designed the Galen with Zimmerman and the Doctor and will be there as an engineering specialist. Zimmerman, obviously, is not going.

Best,
Kirsten

 

[Jose Tyler]

Kirsten -

I sat down and read "Full Circle" from start to finish and really loved it. You completly nailed all of the characters; when Chakotay makes peace and intruduces himself to Hugh, it felt like we were really being introducted to Chakotay for the first time. I enjoyed all the clues (at least I hope they are clues) about things to come. I cannot believe the trip back to the DQ will be as smooth as Starfleet thinks, and I think that our dear Admiral Batiste is going to have some medical issues come to light very soon. Any hints on "Unworthy" you are willing to share?

Again, bravo on "Full Circle"!

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Kirsten -

I sat down and read "Full Circle" from start to finish and really loved it. You completly nailed all of the characters; when Chakotay makes peace and intruduces himself to Hugh, it felt like we were really being introducted to Chakotay for the first time. I enjoyed all the clues (at least I hope they are clues) about things to come. I cannot believe the trip back to the DQ will be as smooth as Starfleet thinks, and I think that our dear Admiral Batiste is going to have some medical issues come to light very soon. Any hints on "Unworthy" you are willing to share?

Again, bravo on "Full Circle"!

First of all, you guys need to stop doing that...reading the thing in one day or night. It was supposed to hold you over for a bit.

Second, what an interesting thing to say about the Cambridge/Chakotay moment. I wanted so much to really break Chakotay's character open but I hadn't thought of it that way until now. Thanks.

As for the clues....

Yes, there are some. But I can't point all of them out for you. I don't think the nice people who hired me to write these books would like that. I will say that to expect smooth sailing in the Delta Quadrant would be silly. And nothing that was developed about Batiste thus far was accidental or unintentional.

Glad the book worked for you.

Best,
Kirsten

 

[T'Ressa Dax]

^I promise to take at least 10 days enjoying FC. Based on my progress so far with the similarly long Mere Anarchy. <G> And it might be even longer since I'm expecting to be busy with other stuff soon...

 

[kimc]

Now I have to go tiptoe into the Voy forum and try to spread a little of this love around. I'll be back if they chase me out with sticks . . .

Many thanks! Now...wear something warm and take emergency rations. You never know.

Please don't tell us you have an opinion of the forum without posting there.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Please don't tell us you have an opinion of the forum without posting there.

Now that's an open invitation if I've ever seen one. I've posted there. It's a wacky place. More posts regarding the romance between J and C than can be counted, which amazes me because there was no on-screen romance between them at all. The things fans make up and then believe are real...

That's what I enjoy about Full Circle. The characters actually behave they way they did as presented on television and not in some bodice-busting wet dream. Kirsten nailed it.