Full Circle Review Thread (Spoilers)

[kimc]

Again, I've just started posting in this thread recently and have been reacting to other posts more than putting forth my own theories so I'm curious where you've seen these "absurd answers".

Lately...in the other Janeway/poll thread. For the past eight months or so...name a thread on this topic. But if this is the first theory on the topic you personally have offered I do apologize for lumping you in with everyone else who is angry about this choice and has no intention of reading FC and has decided that the only way this could ever have happened was because...well, let's not go there.

Personally I think there is a period of mourning going on here among Janeway fans and one of the stages of that grief is going to be anger. Another part of it is trying to make sense of the situation and putting forth theories is a natural part of that.

I can see how it would be tempting to lump all Janeway fans into one group but I would urge folks not to do that. Trek fans come in a wide variety and so do Janeway fans. Dismissing them as "a group of angry women" is devalueing. Whatever happened to infinite diversity in infinite combinations?

I don't hold a personal grudge against any of the writers. If in return, writers can stop making assumptions about every fan who is mad about that decision that would be splendid.

That's very nice to hear. And I, for one, have made no assumptions about any fan who is displeased with the decision beyond that they probably won't be reading my books.

Actually that would be another assumption. Some Janeway fans while angry are reading the book anyway. In fact there is a thread on this topic in the Voyager forum. It's a less dramatic one than the ones in Trek Lit so it may be a bit sedate for some.

Though I know you aren't arguing it here, I believe you have said elsewhere that whether you made the decision (in this case, Margaret) or you executed the decision (in this case, me and Peter) you have to share the responsibility so I sort of feel those words coming toward me.

While I believe the decision to be a stupid one it would be difficult to hold a personal grudge against someone I haven't even met. I would be interested in the business reasons for it though since given the market out there for a good books featuring Janeway it seems like a lost opportunity.

 

[Judith Sisko]

^ ^ Personally, I have no problem with you sharing your opinion - in the proper thread. I've been avoiding all the other Janeway threads because they've become quite circular. THIS thread is a review of Kirsten's book.

Full Circle.

The book you have repeatedly and quite emphatically said you will not read. How can you partake in a discussion of a book you have not read?

Yes, very good question. Please do tell Kimc, if not, don't let the door hit you on the arse when you leave.

There's a difference between having an opinion about an editorial decision to kill a Trek captain and having an opinion about a book that appears after that decision has been made. The fact I need to explain that to you doesn't speak well for your intelligence.

Wow. My first post in over a month and this is the response I get? And from a mod no less?

Not that it's pertinent to the conversation, but I have three education degrees and have been a teacher for 28 years. My intelligence is not a factor here. My middle school students would never speak to me in the manner you just did. They know to show respect when respect is shown to them.

That being said, I am well aware that there is a difference between having an opinion about an editorial decision and an opinion about a book. THAT is what I am saying to you; THIS thread is about the book, not the editorial decision.

 

[Johnhead99]

I just finished FC and I thought it was great. I was about to come here and write a full review; but then seen what it turned into (what it always turns into). So sick of the whole Janeway thing. Get over it.

Maybe I'll stop back in a few days to write the review. Kirsten deserves to hear some feedback other than just Janeway/BD nonsense.

 

[Dr. Jekyl]

Take a chill pill, folks.

I admit that I'm guilty of dredging the topic up here myself, but this is not the place to debate the decision to kill Janeway - and it's certainly not the place to insult each other over it. Calling people 'idiots' and telling them to 'get over it' is not exactly conducive to a rational discussion. This is the place to talk about how Janeway's death was handled in Full Circle, how it impacted the Voyager universe through the book and maybe examine how it affected the book's development. The merit and motives of the original decision are fodder for another thread. Take it there.

 

[BORU]

Do I like that Janeway is dead?

I miss Kathryn, Janeway not so much. Janeway drove me bonkers towards the end but I still don't like her being dead, or whatever, because she takes the hope of rediscovering Kathryn with her. I still think it was idiotic, the whole Q thing is just so...huh?

Now that I've gotten that out of the way let me take a page from Steve Roby and make it short and to the point on Full Circle.

You did good Girlfriend and I look forward to reading more of your work.

 

[Judith Sisko]

Kirsten,

I just finished FC. Thank you for writing what clearly must have been a labor of love for you.

It was a beautiful story and a beautiful tribute.

I laughed.

I cried.

(More details to come later.)

 

[Dark Gilligan]

There's a difference between having an opinion about an editorial decision to kill a Trek captain and having an opinion about a book that appears after that decision has been made. The fact I need to explain that to you doesn't speak well for your intelligence.

Yikes. I go out of town on a four-day holiday only to return to the boards and find kimc still at it. I enjoyed Full Circle immensely. As has been said so well by Judith Sisko, it clearly was written as a labor of love. Not that kimc would ever know it. But let's talk about that, kimc. This thread is about reviews for Full Circle. "The fact I need to explain that to you doesn't speak well for your intelligence," to borrow a delightful quote above. You have not read the book, you have no intention of reading the book, and yet you continue to come to this very thread and stand by your opinion as if said opinion actually means something. Allow me to repeat: this thread is about the book's reviews. Until you've read Full Circle your opinion is unearned. Your opinion is without credible authority. Janeway was not killed in Full Circle, but Kirsten showed her great honor and respect in laying her to rest in a way that PAD did not. Yet you've relentlessly caused trouble in this thread and I'm amazed that TPTB have allowed you to stay on as a moderator when clearly that is well beyond your capacity. You want to talk intelligence? Let's have a chat, kimc.

 

[Rosalind]

OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

okay, now that I feel better, everyone please stay on topic, that is, the review of Full Circle.

As for the various notifies and PMs we received in the last 24 hours on the posts in this thread, we are discussing them in the BR, so please leave everything none-FC related off this thread.

Thank you.

 

[Paris]

I finally got my copy on Thursday afternoon (April 9) and by Saturday morning I was finished. I know Kirsten spent more than two years planning out and actually writing this wonderful book, and I fully intended to take a few days in between parts one and two of the book in order to reflect... but I couldn't. I didn't last more than an hour. I absolutely needed to keep reading .

This book is a perfect example of what can happen when someone who loves a series takes over writing the further adventures in literature form. I'm a fan of Christie Golden's first four books of this relaunch, but after reading Full Circle, it's pretty evident that those books can't hold a candle to FC. I thought that since this book was going to cover so much time in the lives of our heroes, that it would seem watered down in some places. This was not the case. This story was tied directly into the pre-Nemesis A Time To...books series

Spoiler: Spoiler for Full Circle)

Kahless and the mobile emitter

and made Janeway's death in Before Dishonor actually mean something, and that much easier to take.

There couldn't have been a better love letter to the character of Kathryn Janeway than Full Circle. For all those people who are avoiding this book because of Janeway's death in BD, then you don't know what you are missing. If you are truly a Janeway fan, then I believe this book is as indispensible as Jeri Taylor's Mosaic or Pathways. This is an amazing send off. Her true send off if you will...

And as someone who is a Tom Paris and Chakotay fan, I was extremely pleased. These two guys had more character development in these 500+ pages, than in the entire tv series. I've heard that Robert Beltran was unhappy with the lack of characterization of Chakotay during the series run. If he still cares at all, he should read this. It will definetly make him feel better.

Sorry that I finished so fast Kirsten. I couldn't help it. When reading this thread, it's pretty evident that i'm not the only one. I haven't devoured a trek book this fast since...well...ever. Thanks for the great read!

Now I can't wait for Unworthy

 

[DimesDan]

OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

okay, now that I feel better, everyone please stay on topic, that is, the review of Full Circle.

As for the various notifies and PMs we received in the last 24 hours on the posts in this thread, we are discussing them in the BR, so please leave everything none-FC related off this thread.

Thank you.

BR? What would that be? Plus, anychance of transparency of the discussions at hand and knowing what the results, if any I guess would be.

 

[Defcon]

OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

okay, now that I feel better, everyone please stay on topic, that is, the review of Full Circle.

As for the various notifies and PMs we received in the last 24 hours on the posts in this thread, we are discussing them in the BR, so please leave everything none-FC related off this thread.

Thank you.

BR? What would that be? Plus, anychance of transparency of the discussions at hand and knowing what the results, if any I guess would be.

BR = Briefing Room

As far as I understand it, it's a staff only forum, where they discuss board matters, warnings etc.

 

[DimesDan]

As far as I understand it, it's a staff only forum, where they discuss board matters, warnings etc.

Cheers for that, so the possibility of transparency could very well be a fantasy then.

 

[ronny]

Oh, and the jumping around in time doesn't seem too bad, but then I've reaad another even longer novel that sometimes contained multiple time and POV shifts per chapter. If I got through that without too much confusion and backtracking to remind myself of things then I think I can manage Full Circle.
No, the one I'm thinking of isn't Star Trek.

It's part two where the jumping around in time starts to get harder to follow. If you're only 60 pages in I think the only time shifting you've seen is a prologue then you go back in time to start the story.

 

[LightningStorm]

As far as I understand it, it's a staff only forum, where they discuss board matters, warnings etc.

Cheers for that, so the possibility of transparency could very well be a fantasy then.

Not necessarily. If a warning comes of this it will be handled like all others so a message here would be posted. Though, further discussion or questions on the matter should be handled via PM from this point forward.

This thread should remain on the topic of Full Circle.

 

[esme]

And as someone who is a Tom Paris and Chakotay fan, I was extremely pleased. These two guys had more character development in these 500+ pages, than in the entire tv series. I've heard that Robert Beltran was unhappy with the lack of characterization of Chakotay during the series run. If he still cares at all, he should read this. It will definetly make him feel better.

Somebody (who attends Star Trek Conventions) should tell Robert Beltran and the other Voyager guys about this book. I think they'd be pleased to read it. Full Circle is nothing but amazing!

 

[My2tailwaggers]

how's this for a chronology mashup?

2378
HOMECOMING (VGR)
- Chapters 1-3
• February 2378 – [Chapters 4-20]
{JANUARY} “WIDOW’S WALK” (VGR, SNW VI)
- first entry
• March 2378 – [second – fourth entries]
“FRAGMENT” (VGR, SNW V)
“HOMEMADE” (VGR, SNW VI)
{FEBRUARY 17} “FINAL ENTRY” (VGR, SNW V)
- final entry (see primary entry in 2353)
HOMECOMING (VGR)
- Chapters 4-20 (see primary entry, above)
THE FARTHER SHORE (VGR)
ADJUSTMENTS (VOY, SNW 10)
{MARCH} “WIDOW’S WALK” (VGR, SNW VI)
- second – fourth entries (see primary entry, above)
“COFFEE WITH A FRIEND” (VGR, SNW 8)
“SEDUCED” (CHAKOTAY, TFTCT)
• 2344 – [sections 1-11]
SPIRIT WALK #1: OLD WOUNDS (VGR)
• 2375 – [Prologue]
SPIRIT WALK #2: ENEMY OF MY ENEMY (VGR)
{STARDATE 55595.4 TO 55600.7} CAPTAIN’S PERIL (ST)
BRAVE NEW WORLD (MYRIAD UNIVERSES: ECHOES AND REFRACTIONS)
• Alternate Timeline
{SEPTEMBER} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 1 - 15
• 2379 -81
{OCTOBER} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 16 - 17 (see primary entry, above)
A TIME TO BE BORN (TNG)
A TIME TO DIE (TNG)
A TIME TO SOW (TNG)
2379
A TIME TO HARVEST (TNG)
A TIME TO LOVE (TNG)
A TIME TO HATE (TNG)
'TIL DEATH (THE SKY'S THE LIMIT)
A TIME TO KILL (TNG)
A TIME TO HEAL (TNG)
AFTER THE FALL (NF #15)
- “After . . .”
• 2377 – [“Before . . .”]
{STARDATE 56265, APRIL 7} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Flashback (see primary entry in 2378)
A TIME FOR WAR, A TIME FOR PEACE (TNG)
- Chapters 1-15
• about two weeks later – [Epilogue sections 1-6]
• about seven weeks later – [Epilogue section 7]
{STARDATE 56344.5} ALIEN SPOTLIGHT: BORG (ST IDW GRAPHIC)
MISSING IN ACTION (NF #16)
TURNAROUND (NF IDW GRAPHIC)
{STARDATE 56828.8} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapter 1 (see primary entry, below)
{STARDATE 56844.9} STAR TREK: NEMESIS (TNG NOVELIZATION)
- Prologue; Chapters 1-10; 11§1-4
• about five weeks later – [Chapter 11§5-8]
“FINAL FLIGHT” (TNG, SNW 8)
- Sections 1, 3, 5, 8 (see primary entry, below)
{JUNE} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 18 (see primary entry in 2378)
A TIME FOR WAR, A TIME FOR PEACE (TNG)
- Epilogue §1-6 (see primary entry, above)
{STARDATE 56934.1} ON THE SPOT (THE SKY'S THE LIMIT)
DEATH IN WINTER (TNG)
“IMPROVISATIONS ON THE OPAL SEA: A TALE OF DUBIOUS CREDIBILITY” (RIKER, TFTCT)
THE VERY MODEL (TNG, SNW 10)
TRUST YOURSELF WHEN ALL MEN DOUBT YOU (THE SKY'S THE LIMIT)
“FINAL FLIGHT” (TNG, SNW 8)
- Sections 2, 4, 6-7
• about three weeks earlier – [sections 1, 3, 5, 8]
{STARDATE 56941.1 – 56941.4} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapters 2-4 (see primary entry, below)
STAR TREK: NEMESIS (TNG NOVELIZATION)
- Chapter 11 §5-8 (see primary entry, above)
{STARDATE 56944.2} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapter 5 (see primary entry, below)
A TIME FOR WAR, A TIME FOR PEACE (TNG)
- Epilogue section 7 (see primary entry, above)
{STARDATE 56979.5 – 57023.3} TAKING WING (TITAN #1)
- Chapters 6-24
• six weeks earlier – [Chapter 1]
• two weeks earlier – [Chapters 2-4]
• less than two weeks earlier – [Chapter 5]

2380
VULCAN'S SOUL #3: EPIPHANY (ST)
- Epilogue (see primary entry in 2377)
{STARDATE 57024.0 – 57080.6} THE RED KING (TITAN #2)
- Chapters 1-3; 5-22; Coda
• 2349 – [Chapter 4]
{JANUARY} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 1-6
• March – [Chapters 7-12]
• May – [Chapters 13-17]
• August – [Chapters 18-21]
• October – [Chapters 22-24]
• December – [Chapters 25-28]
“THE CALLING” (P&C)
{STARDATE 57137.8 – 57223.6} ORION’S HOUNDS (TITAN #3)
{MARCH} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 7-12 (see primary entry, above)
{LATE APRIL} RESISTANCE (TNG)
{EARLY MAY} Q & A (TNG)
{MAY} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 13-17 (see primary entry, above)
SWORD OF DAMOCLES (TITAN #4)
BRIGADOON (SPEC, SNW 10)
{JUNE} BEFORE DISHONOR (TNG)
{JUNE} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Prologue, Chapter 19 (see primary entry in 2378)
{STARDATE 57465.6} CAPTAIN’S BLOOD (ST)
{JULY 23} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Unregistered vessel (see primary entry in 2378)
{AUGUST} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- USS Titan (see primary entry in 2378)
{AUGUST} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 18-21 (see primary entry, above)
{AUGUST} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 23 (see primary entry in 2378)
{SEPTEMBER 2380 - JANUARY 2381} GREATER THAN THE SUM (TNG)
{OCTOBER} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 22-24 (see primary entry, above)
{DECEMBER} ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION (ST)
- Chapters 25-28 (see primary entry, above)
CAPTAIN’S GLORY (ST)

2381
{FEBRUARY} DESTINY: GODS OF NIGHT
DESTINY: MERE MORTALS
DESTINY: LOST SOULS
• 2381 – [Epilogue]
{FEBRUARY} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 24 - 25 (see primary entry in 2378)
{FEBRUARY 16 - LATE APRIL} OVER A TORRENT SEA (TITAN #5)
- Prologue (see primary entry, below)
{LATE FEBRUARY} DESTINY: LOST SOULS
- Epilogue (see primary entry, above)
{MARCH} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 26 (see primary entry in 2378)
{APRIL} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapter 27 (see primary entry in 2378)
{LATE APRIL - 12 MAY} A SINGULAR DESTINY
{STARDATE 57585, MAY} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 20 -22 (see primary entry in 2378)
{MAY} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Chapters 28 - 34 (see primary entry in 2378)
{JUNE} FULL CIRCLE (VOY)
- Epilogue (see primary entry in 2378)
{JULY 1 - AUGUST 4} OVER A TORRENT SEA (TITAN #5)
• late February - late April 2381– [Prologue]
“ONCE UPON A TRIBBLE” (VGR, SNW 8)

***************************************

Thanks for doing this.. .if this is the timeline, then it clears up a couple of my questions. I have already read the Destiny Trilogy and A Singular Destiny where it does list a member of the Voyager crew as being killed (on page 117 of the paperback)... so I was confused as to how this character could be in the new Voyager book. If you have not read A Singular Destiny yet.. then please dont read this post (I cant see how to post those great spoiler buttons)..
Spoiler below.....




In A Singular Destiny... Torres and her daughter are reported dead in a Casualty report on pages 116 and 117 of the paperback. Does this new Voyager book deal with this?? I just received the book in the mail today and plan to start it tonight.. but I was curious. Thanks.

 

[Thrawn]

Yes, it does deal with it.

 

[My2tailwaggers]

Yes, it does deal with it.

*************
Thanks! I appreciate the answer!

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Johnhead, BORU, Judith and Paris,

Many thanks. You guys make me even more glad I got the chance to write this. That was hard to feel before the book was out as the speculations and accusations were flying. But knowing that you got what I was going for and can see my genuine affection for these people and their stories is wonderful.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer

 

[ronny]

Yes, it does deal with it.

This is like one of those English examples in school where the teacher says now the meaning of a sentence can be changed when the comma is moved. I glanced at your answer and saw

Yes it does, deal with it.

and I thought "that's kind of harsh". Nevermind...