For people who don't like the reboots
- Thread starter indycar
- Start date
It's oversimplifying, perhaps, I just find TOS, TNG era, and the JJ-films products of their times. Also, JJ has put the focus pretty squarely on the two mains of Kirk and Spock as the TOS era was, particularly the TV show. I prefer less of the ensemble style of the TNG era. Since I didn't care about most of the characters, having large swathes of a series invested in folks I didn't care about had me switching to another station more often than not. I think the respective eras reflect the times, but also the story styles of TOS and the JJ films have great similarity to one another by focusing primarily on Kirk and Spock.
It's also an economic concern: Kirk and Spock are widely known to genereal audiences via pop culture. Everyone else...not so much. A recognisable brand name equals profit. I approve of this because it gives Kirk and Spock more space to develop their characters.
There is no legitimate complaint along these lines. Only intractable old fans. This video covers some of it:
^ This is awesome.
* slow claps à la Citizen Kane *
* slow claps à la Citizen Kane *
I agree with most of what the vlog says, although I would have been interested to see him justify the changes to Scotty. NuUhura is just Uhura merged with Rand but I think NuTrek should have worked harder to equalise the male/female divide from the sixties instead of making it worse. The issue for me is just the silly, sloppy story aspects. TOS also had a lot of silly aspects that did not need to be embraced and expanded upon.
TMP is my favorite of the movies. Very underrated, and exactly what I'd expect from the first on-screen Star Trek movie. Very good movie. The rest were cool, but not really "Star Trek" in your face, but just, fun action movies sometimes with something minor to say.
But TPM was just like, this is the spirit of Trek.
Abrams' Trek. While I didn't outright hate them, I was just, overwhelmingly disappointed. It's like Abrams doesn't understand the characters. Spock with Uhura? What?! Lame. That's not Spock's character. But the real point being, Abrams did what he does. He makes a movie to entertain the masses; not any specific group. Trust me, Trek-fans were the last people he wanted to sucker in. JJ wants new fans to get their $$$, he already knew he'd get the $$$ from the old fans. But, there you have it- Star Trek really as a mindless actioner first and foremost, instead of intelligent morality play. Which now apparently isn't Star Trek anymore.
But, like I said, as a fan of movies, the Trek reboots were fun. As a Satr Trek fan? Really really disappointed. But, didn't hate. No, I reserve all my hate for the Abrams/Disney Star Wars abomination trash garabage which everyone seems to love so much. It's disgusting that Disney can destroy the beloved OT characters this way, and everyone eats it up like he didn't just nullify the entire OT trilogy. The one and only thing that gives me peace at this point is knowing that Disney Star Wars movies are really just Disney Star Wars fan-fic garbage. Star Wars is only "real" if it says "story by George Lucas" and not "based on characters created by George Lucas".
Because that Han Solo who is a no-good piece of trash who abandons his wife in troublesome times, and regresses back into his slimy days? That's not Han Solo. The coward "Luke" who runs and hides like a guilt-ridden coward? That is not Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is the one who would never quit on bringing his father back to the Jedi order, even when everyone around him was adamant it couldn't be done. But Luke did it. He ignored the naysayers and went the distance. Now you're trying to tell me suddenly Luke is completely 180 different? Now he's a coward who won't try to help Han or his kid? His sister's kid? He just flees and shuts it all away? THIS IS NOT THE REAL LUKE SKYWALKER. This is a pathetic Disney fan-fic "Luke" knock-off. ... ..
Okay. Sorry about that. Anyway. What were we talking about?
But TPM was just like, this is the spirit of Trek.
Abrams' Trek. While I didn't outright hate them, I was just, overwhelmingly disappointed. It's like Abrams doesn't understand the characters. Spock with Uhura? What?! Lame. That's not Spock's character. But the real point being, Abrams did what he does. He makes a movie to entertain the masses; not any specific group. Trust me, Trek-fans were the last people he wanted to sucker in. JJ wants new fans to get their $$$, he already knew he'd get the $$$ from the old fans. But, there you have it- Star Trek really as a mindless actioner first and foremost, instead of intelligent morality play. Which now apparently isn't Star Trek anymore.
But, like I said, as a fan of movies, the Trek reboots were fun. As a Satr Trek fan? Really really disappointed. But, didn't hate. No, I reserve all my hate for the Abrams/Disney Star Wars abomination trash garabage which everyone seems to love so much. It's disgusting that Disney can destroy the beloved OT characters this way, and everyone eats it up like he didn't just nullify the entire OT trilogy. The one and only thing that gives me peace at this point is knowing that Disney Star Wars movies are really just Disney Star Wars fan-fic garbage. Star Wars is only "real" if it says "story by George Lucas" and not "based on characters created by George Lucas".
Because that Han Solo who is a no-good piece of trash who abandons his wife in troublesome times, and regresses back into his slimy days? That's not Han Solo. The coward "Luke" who runs and hides like a guilt-ridden coward? That is not Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is the one who would never quit on bringing his father back to the Jedi order, even when everyone around him was adamant it couldn't be done. But Luke did it. He ignored the naysayers and went the distance. Now you're trying to tell me suddenly Luke is completely 180 different? Now he's a coward who won't try to help Han or his kid? His sister's kid? He just flees and shuts it all away? THIS IS NOT THE REAL LUKE SKYWALKER. This is a pathetic Disney fan-fic "Luke" knock-off. ... ..
Okay. Sorry about that. Anyway. What were we talking about?
^ Me, too. The characterisation was great in those, and in Star Wars, too. That's what makes my man J.J. such a good film-maker...that and the fact that he's an unapologetic Beastie Boys fanchild (BB-8, anyone?). 
Seconded. Like him, I prioritise characterisation over plot: Kirk's character arc, Rey's, Kylo Ren's, Spock's...amazing work. Give Super 8 a watch; that has good characterisation and acting, as well.
Agree.
Re Leee79
It is unfair to compare TOS Spock to reboot Spock. TOS Spock is introduced to a 1960's audience when he is in his early thirties. Reboot Spock is in his mid to late 20's, expecting no differences in their life choices is not logical. When 'The Cage' was televised Spock under Captain Pike is emotional, if he was unbonded, a relationship with a fellow officer is not impossible. I know none of the novels are canon but the story 'Vulcan's Glory' uses a plot device to explain the change to Spock's personality and he has a lover who is not T'Pring in the story.
It is unfair to compare TOS Spock to reboot Spock. TOS Spock is introduced to a 1960's audience when he is in his early thirties. Reboot Spock is in his mid to late 20's, expecting no differences in their life choices is not logical. When 'The Cage' was televised Spock under Captain Pike is emotional, if he was unbonded, a relationship with a fellow officer is not impossible. I know none of the novels are canon but the story 'Vulcan's Glory' uses a plot device to explain the change to Spock's personality and he has a lover who is not T'Pring in the story.
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I'm fine with the relationship, I just cringe when it impinges on their professionalism while they're on duty during a crisis. I also get very angry at all the hugging in Doctor Who so it may just be me.
What rankles a little bit more is that, yes, this is a less mature Spock in his twenties, but he is also a full commander AND a first officer, years ahead of the promotion of Spock Prime, leap-frogging over Number One, who was a lieutenant, who is then in turn, leap-frogged by Kirk, even though it was Spock's refusal to listen to Kirk (which led Kirk to meet Scotty and Spock Prime), and Spock recovering the red matter that actually save the day.
If anything, Kirk is reckless, insubordinate, and only succeeded through sheer luck. One can argue that Kirk inspired the other crew to up their game but one could not argue that this makes Kirk a good candidate for leadership. He's actually a menace who succeeds because the plot allows him to.
I think maybe it's easier to believe that Shatner's Kirk deserves to be captain because we can assume that in his back story (spanning an additional 12 years of Starfeet action) he did something to deserve it, even if he acts like a dick on screen now. NuKirk isn't able to fudge that.
Not exactly. Pike knew Kirk's father and that does seem to colour his perception of Kirk. He met Kirk for the first time in the bar and reviewed his record. He knows he scores as a genius on tests. He knows he has an attitude problem as he is a 'repeat offender'. He is under a disciplinary investigation prior to the crisis and disobeys several orders throughout his active duty. He gets into two fights on the bridge. I'm willing to agree that Kirk deserves a commendation alongside his his disciplinary but he doesn't deserve the captain's chair based on what we see on screen. There was an episode of the Simpsons that had Homer being promoted to the captain of a submarine in similar circumstances...
If I could change one thing about the movies, it would be 'cadet to captain'. It was a tough pill to swallow no matter how we try and explain it away.
But Paramount didn't drive a dumptruck full of money up to my house and ask me to make the movie. It is always easy to criticize decisions that we have no context for.
If we go by on-screen evidence (the computer display during that transporter scene), Kirk went from Lieutenant to Captain.
Just like Saavik, he attained the rank of Lieutenant while at the Academy. So he only skipped a couple steps in rank (Lt. Cmdr. and Cmdr.) instead of six as people seem to think (Ens. JG, Ens., Lt. JG, Lt., Lt. Cmdr, and Cmdr.)
Kor
Just like Saavik, he attained the rank of Lieutenant while at the Academy. So he only skipped a couple steps in rank (Lt. Cmdr. and Cmdr.) instead of six as people seem to think (Ens. JG, Ens., Lt. JG, Lt., Lt. Cmdr, and Cmdr.)
Kor
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