For Blu-Ray, will TMP have to have all new FX?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I heard that the new special effects done for the Director's Edition DVD were only made at standard resolution, and so the film can't be released as-is on Blu-Ray. Does this mean they will have to redo the effects all over again for a Blu-Ray release (or to air the film in HD)?

(This is the same reason why TNG, DS9 and Voyager must be redone from scratch if they are ever to be aired in HD or released on Blu-Ray, since all of their effects and editing were done on videotape which has a very low resolution.)

 

[Christopher]

(This is the same reason why TNG, DS9 and Voyager must be redone from scratch if they are ever to be aired in HD or released on Blu-Ray, since all of their effects and editing were done on videotape which has a very low resolution.)

Not "must be." I've heard there have been tests underway to use some sort of interpolation software to fill in the content between the scan lines, analogously to how wire-removal or dirt-removal software works. That would be a lot less labor-intensive, I would assume, than recreating all the FX.

 

[FalTorPan]

I heard that the new special effects done for the Director's Edition DVD were only made at standard resolution, and so the film can't be released as-is on Blu-Ray. Does this mean they will have to redo the effects all over again for a Blu-Ray release (or to air the film in HD)?

(This is the same reason why TNG, DS9 and Voyager must be redone from scratch if they are ever to be aired in HD or released on Blu-Ray, since all of their effects and editing were done on videotape which has a very low resolution.)

Videotape? The effects are of DVD quality, so I doubt the effects were done on videotape.

 

[Data Holmes]

I heard that the new special effects done for the Director's Edition DVD were only made at standard resolution, and so the film can't be released as-is on Blu-Ray. Does this mean they will have to redo the effects all over again for a Blu-Ray release (or to air the film in HD)?

(This is the same reason why TNG, DS9 and Voyager must be redone from scratch if they are ever to be aired in HD or released on Blu-Ray, since all of their effects and editing were done on videotape which has a very low resolution.)

Videotape? The effects are of DVD quality, so I doubt the effects were done on videotape.

i believe that was a reference to TNG, DS9, and most of early Voyager.

 

[FalTorPan]

I heard that the new special effects done for the Director's Edition DVD were only made at standard resolution, and so the film can't be released as-is on Blu-Ray. Does this mean they will have to redo the effects all over again for a Blu-Ray release (or to air the film in HD)?

(This is the same reason why TNG, DS9 and Voyager must be redone from scratch if they are ever to be aired in HD or released on Blu-Ray, since all of their effects and editing were done on videotape which has a very low resolution.)

Videotape? The effects are of DVD quality, so I doubt the effects were done on videotape.

i believe that was a reference to TNG, DS9, and most of early Voyager.

Whoops. I think you're right.

 

[trevanian]

They could just release a cleaned up copy of the theatrical version and be a lot better off. I mean the DE didn't even address some of the worst shots in the movie, like the little guy who looks like he fell off his support rod while escaping Epsilon 9. If people can see past that w/o turning the movie off, they can just as well turn the darkness down during the matte shots that were timed too hot during transfer or the other mattes that weren't done by Yuricich.

 

[Data Holmes]

They could just release a cleaned up copy of the theatrical version and be a lot better off. I mean the DE didn't even address some of the worst shots in the movie, like the little guy who looks like he fell off his support rod while escaping Epsilon 9. If people can see past that w/o turning the movie off, they can just as well turn the darkness down during the matte shots that were timed too hot during transfer or the other mattes that weren't done by Yuricich.

You know, I always liked how he stumbled like that. Adds to the drama. lol


But my issues with effects is still the officers lounge scene... that thing shouldn't be in the saucer, it should be under the bridge!


Aside from that, my problems with the DE is mostly the editing and audio. but that's a different story.

 

[guardian]

Wow, you actually think he stumbled ???

He is being hit by V-gers wave--I can't imagine anyone not getting that.

As for TMP--since the D.E. is the favorite by a large plurality if not an outright majority---they will release that version on Blu-ray--hopefully they'll release the Theartrical on the same disc via 'seamless branching'

And they COULD release the DE without upgrading the fx--they just wouldn't look very good in the shots that were newly made for the DE.

To say that they COULDN'T release the DE version because of that is like saying they couldn't release the TFF because it has substandard FX.
As far as TFF is concerned they could and likely WILL release the Blu-ray with the lousy fx that we've seen all along.

 

[Data Holmes]

Wow, you actually think he stumbled ???

He is being hit by V-gers wave--I can't imagine anyone not getting that.

I got that, I was using his description. That's why I always liked the "stumble". It implied that there was some force or energy wave associated to the effect. Sure it was a mistake when one of the wires snapped during filming the sequence, but it was a good mistake.

 

[guardian]

^^So you are still saying you think the 'stumble' was just a mistake during filming and not intended ??

A happy accident???

I'm speechless.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

'wires snapped'

It was a 12 inch miniature of a man and no 'wires snapped' during filming
It was shot that way to show the poor 'spacewalker' hopelesslly fleeing the wave and being struck.

 

[Data Holmes]

I thought it was a well known fact that that "effect" was actually created when one of the two fishing wires which were used to suspend the figure, broke at the end of a shot. The effects crew felt that it added something to the scene and left it in, rather than cut before it broke.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

That is complete nonsense--unless of course you can sight any place where that is mentioned by anyone involved with the movie.

Is that mentioned in THP DVD comentary or making of sections.

I'd happily kiss you feet if you can direct me to where that is said. Well figurativly since this is the internet.

 

[trevanian]

That is complete nonsense--unless of course you can sight any place where that is mentioned by anyone involved with the movie.

Is that mentioned in THP DVD comentary or making of sections.

I'd happily kiss you feet if you can direct me to where that is said. Well figurativly since this is the internet.

I'm sure somebody probably took a joking reference of mine out of context, as I usually describe it as Mattel's Major Matt Mason spacetoy falling off his wire ... actually it'd've looked better because there would have been some sense of gravity to it, as is, it is a very badly executed motion control move that is attempting to create something naturalistic-looking and not cutting the mustard (unless it is mustard gas.)

There may be times when you can get away with a 2 foot puppet filling the screen, but the few times I can recall folks doing it (this, and the end of ROBOCOP when Dick Jones goes out the building window) it was really awful. In SFS, they at least started with the real guy, then substitued the little figure further down.

Note: I'm not including nice stop motion dynosaurs in there, there are plenty of those that pass muster.

 

[Grant]

^^^Thanks buddy !!

Man I was going to drag out my D.E. of TMP and set it the 'FX audio track' and go to that scene just to see if i was going nuts. I mean the coincidence of the string breaking during the scene where he is being chased by the cloud??

Yes, it looks so bad it would be a good excuse for them to say 'the string just broke and with time factors.....', rather than it's the best we could do!

And you saved the new guy from the indignity of kissing someone's feet!!! (even over the internet)

 

[trevanian]

^^^Thanks buddy !!

Man I was going to drag out my D.E. of TMP and set it the 'FX audio track' and go to that scene just to see if i was going nuts. I mean the coincidence of the string breaking during the scene where he is being chased by the cloud??

Yes, it looks so bad it would be a good excuse for them to say 'the string just broke and with time factors.....', rather than it's the best we could do!

And you saved the new guy from the indignity of kissing someone's feet!!! (even over the internet)

Now if I could just convince the majority that the klingon blood being pink had nothing to do with getting a pg-13 rating ... (sigh)

 

[David cgc]

As for TMP--since the D.E. is the favorite by a large plurality if not an outright majority---they will release that version on Blu-ray--hopefully they'll release the Theartrical on the same disc via 'seamless branching'

That'd be technically impossible, considering how virtually every scene had a new audio mix, or shots trimmed down by a few frames, or some other modification. Seamless branching is only worth the trouble if most of the movie is identical between the different versions that are being branched. I don't think much of anything came out of the Director's Edition completely unchanged from how it was in the theatrical cut.

They could put the theatrical version on another disc as a special feature, and use seamless branching to switch between that and the Special Longer Version. That'd be much more doable.

As for the visual effects, I remember that the people responsible made all the models and scenes with enough quality to be rendered at film resolution, because a theatrical rerelease was a possibility. They were rendered only at DVD quality because Paramount cheaped out, but assuming good archives were kept, it wouldn't be any trouble at all to take the new special effects assets and rerender them in HD.

Assuming good archives were kept.

 

[guardian]

As for TMP--since the D.E. is the favorite by a large plurality if not an outright majority---they will release that version on Blu-ray--hopefully they'll release the Theartrical on the same disc via 'seamless branching'

That'd be technically impossible, considering how virtually every scene had a new audio mix, or shots trimmed down by a few frames, or some other modification. Seamless branching is only worth the trouble if most of the movie is identical between the different versions that are being branched. I don't think much of anything came out of the Director's Edition completely unchanged from how it was in the theatrical cut.

They could put the theatrical version on another disc as a special feature, and use seamless branching to switch between that and the Special Longer Version. That'd be much more doable.

As for the visual effects, I remember that the people responsible made all the models and scenes with enough quality to be rendered at film resolution, because a theatrical rerelease was a possibility. They were rendered only at DVD quality because Paramount cheaped out, but assuming good archives were kept, it wouldn't be any trouble at all to take the new special effects assets and rerender them in HD.

Assuming good archives were kept.

Thanks for reminding me!!
I didn't think at all about the fact the the audio effects were almost completely changed for the DE.

You're right they should put the Special Longer version & the theaterical on the same bonus disc aside from the main disc that would have the D.E.
There is no way the Blu-ray release won't have the Director's cut though.

Come to think of it even the 'SLV' and the theatrical may too have many differences including the rearangment of the 'Ilia probe in Ilia's cabin' scene & the vger attack on the enterprise has a lot of little changes. And then of course what to do about the 'airlock scene with different spacesuit & studio scaffolding showing!

Seamless branching would work for TWOK & TUC as the differences are fairly minor.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

At the very least, I would hope that the Blu-Ray version would include the extended scene in Kirk's quarters when he is talking to McCoy, where they have dialogue like this:

McCoy: And another thing...

Kirk: Get out of here, Bones.

McCoy: As ship's doctor, I am now discussing the subject of command fitness.

That's one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie. I was disappointed that the theatrical version doesn't include it. And since that scene has absolutely no effects whatsoever, there's no real reason why the Blu-Ray version couldn't have it.

Right?

 

[guardian]

^^^Well the "Blu-ray version" will likely be the Director's Cut version so since those line are not in the Director's version they will not be included.

Unless they include the 'Special longer version' which is the ONLY version that had those lines you're out of luck.

So since they sure as hell aren't going to make a FOURTH version---you won't hear those lines on the Blu-ray unless they include the SLV.

Of course they will likely include all the cut stuff in a separate section as the did in the standard release--so at least you'll be able to see it there.

I much prefer the Director's cut but they left out 3 exchanges that surely should have been left in:

1. The one you mentioned
2. McCloy's beautiful, "Or a crew of a thousand ten miles tall" and
3. Decker's, "Of course, we all create god in our image"

whoever was advising Wise (or if he made the decision himself) they just blew it be leaving those bits, which would have added about 50 seconds to the movie.