Fixing the films....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Are they still in business?
More TWOK fixes.
Make Sulu the Captain of the Reliant, with Terrell as his XO. Chekov, in a carry over from TMP, is the ship's Security chief. Terrell still gets red shirted, of course. Though this still doesn't solve the "I never forget a face" problem, as Takei wasn't in Space Seed, either.
Over on the Enterprise, Uhura is now the XO under Spock. The ship is still a training vessel attached to the Academy. ( Which retains the reason for Kirk taking command) Saavik would be the ship's regular helm officer with red shirts filling out the rest of the bridge crew. (in other words, cannon fodder)
This would also force changes to TSFS and TFF, as it would be unlikely that Sulu, Uhura and Chekov would be reassigned to the Enterprise.
Make Sulu the Captain of the Reliant, with Terrell as his XO. Chekov, in a carry over from TMP, is the ship's Security chief. Terrell still gets red shirted, of course. Though this still doesn't solve the "I never forget a face" problem, as Takei wasn't in Space Seed, either.
Over on the Enterprise, Uhura is now the XO under Spock. The ship is still a training vessel attached to the Academy. ( Which retains the reason for Kirk taking command) Saavik would be the ship's regular helm officer with red shirts filling out the rest of the bridge crew. (in other words, cannon fodder)
This would also force changes to TSFS and TFF, as it would be unlikely that Sulu, Uhura and Chekov would be reassigned to the Enterprise.
TMP- Honestly, not much. A lot has been fixed with Wise's "Director's Edition." I'd probably add a little more kinetic action (not a ton, just a bit more movement and dynamic stuff) to off-set the slower pace and a little more color to the bridge.
TWOK- Again, there's not much to "fix." I'd have preferred that the guys at ILM not destroy the paint job on the refit Enterprise. I'd like to see some of the potholes (Reliant not knowing there was a destroyed planet in the system, plot convenience that Kirk just happens to be aboard the Enterprise on a training mission, etc) get cleaned up a bit. Also, the idea that the Genesis device can create a planet from nebula dust (and that the planet would somehow magically appear in the goldilocks zone of a star) would need further explanation.
TSFS- This is one of my favorite films...but there's some stuff to fix here. My biggest thing would be film the Genesis sequences (as much as possible) on location and get rid of the cheap soundstage look. Prolong the battle with the Klingons a little bit. It' s an exciting sequence, but I would have liked to see the Enterprise go out with a little more of a fight. I think that a little re-edit or a line of dialogue that explains why Kirk wants to retrieve Spock's body would be helpful, considering that he didn't even know it had "soft landed." Also, another explanation for the "soft landing" might have helped.
TVH- Although this is far from being one of my favorite movies in the franchise, I don't necessarily think there's a lot to fix here. I think some of the more "cavalier" treatment of the timeline integrity stuff (leaving Klingon equipment with the investigators on the aircraft carrier, taking Dr. Taylor into the future, etc).
TFF- As much as this movie is maligned, I actually really like it and consider it a favorite. Much of what would need to be addressed is the "look" of the film. The special effects would need a complete overhaul, with the exception of a very few things. A number of the points made in the novelization would have been in the movie as well, such as more back-story for Sybok, a better explanation for what the Barrier is and how the Enterprise safely passed, etc. I'd also fix the ending to be closer to what Shatner had originally envisioned, with more menace and spectacle than just a light blob chasing Kirk.
TUC- Lots to fix here, unfortunately. Fix the cheap, rushed look of the production, particularly the re-dress of TNG sets. The entire middle portion of the film needs to be tightened up. As much as I'm not a member of the "Star Trek Intergalactic Politics and Intrigue" fan club, I would have made more of a point to highlight what a huge deal this incident is for the Galaxy and spent less time on Kirk kicking beasts in the knee-genitals and Uhura thumbing through books to learn to speak Klingon. I would completely jettison General Chang and create a more menacing, evil Klingon nemesis. Chang is more like an annoying a$$hole at a cocktail party or school board meeting than anything. I would remove all the clunky, self-indulgent Shakespeare and literary references. I'd probably even change the title of the movie to something less pretentious.
GEN- I don't know. This has been talked about to death. I love the thematic content of this movie, and I believe it has the best visual "look" besides TMP and maybe TSFS. That said, I think there are some enormous plot holes around the Nexus that would need to be addressed. I'd also like to see the Enterprise D have put up more of a fight than it did vs. the Klingon BOP. I'm not going to type any more. I could go on forever.
FC- The scope of this story ended up being too small, at least for the expectations that I had. I have seen a number of people post that the Borg/Starfleet battle is "TEH AWESOME!!!11" but I think it's one of the most disappointing things in the movie franchise. I'd have expanded on that a little more, creating more of a sense of urgency and scale than the brief, ineffective scene that was produced. I'd eliminate or re-tool the idea of the Borg Queen. Maybe one of the assimilated crew becomes another "Locutus" type interface if you need a Borg in a speaking role...I don't know. The deflector dish scene can be improved to look more realistic (like not having sparks fly up in the "air" and crash back down to the "floor", maybe eliminating sound in the vacuum of space, etc).
INS- God help us. I don't have all day.
NEM- Again, this has been talked to death. You could have re-edited the film to eliminate the battle with the aliens on Kolaris III. B4 could have been handled differently (Lore, or maybe just not as stupid). Tighten up Shinzon's motivations for wanting to kill everyone and anyone. Include some of the character stuff that was left on the cutting room floor, particularly the post-wedding scene with Data and Picard. Give Data's death a little more emotional punch.
2009- Cut foolish scenes that were played for laughs (Scotty in the water pipes, Kirk getting caught under the bed, etc) and use that time to expand upon Nero's character, re-introduce the Rura Penthe plot line, and spend a few minutes showing us why Kirk is the way he is in this timeline.
Into Darkness- Slow it down a little...less action, more character and plot. I don't need 15 minutes of Klingons jumping out of ships and getting blown up by Super-Khan. That whole scene is actually tedious and not tense or exciting. Expand upon Kirk and Khan's relationship. Expand on Khan and Marcus's relationship. I don't mind the death-scene or the "Khan's blood" foolishness that much (I actually think the death scene, in a vacuum, is a good scene). ELIMINATE Spock yelling "Khan" and pretty much everything that happens after that moment. Let's have Spock acting more like Spock and less like hyper-violent psychopath. Frankly, I think I would have liked to have seen the Nibiru mission as a full-blown movie rather than just a teaser.
TWOK- Again, there's not much to "fix." I'd have preferred that the guys at ILM not destroy the paint job on the refit Enterprise. I'd like to see some of the potholes (Reliant not knowing there was a destroyed planet in the system, plot convenience that Kirk just happens to be aboard the Enterprise on a training mission, etc) get cleaned up a bit. Also, the idea that the Genesis device can create a planet from nebula dust (and that the planet would somehow magically appear in the goldilocks zone of a star) would need further explanation.
TSFS- This is one of my favorite films...but there's some stuff to fix here. My biggest thing would be film the Genesis sequences (as much as possible) on location and get rid of the cheap soundstage look. Prolong the battle with the Klingons a little bit. It' s an exciting sequence, but I would have liked to see the Enterprise go out with a little more of a fight. I think that a little re-edit or a line of dialogue that explains why Kirk wants to retrieve Spock's body would be helpful, considering that he didn't even know it had "soft landed." Also, another explanation for the "soft landing" might have helped.
TVH- Although this is far from being one of my favorite movies in the franchise, I don't necessarily think there's a lot to fix here. I think some of the more "cavalier" treatment of the timeline integrity stuff (leaving Klingon equipment with the investigators on the aircraft carrier, taking Dr. Taylor into the future, etc).
TFF- As much as this movie is maligned, I actually really like it and consider it a favorite. Much of what would need to be addressed is the "look" of the film. The special effects would need a complete overhaul, with the exception of a very few things. A number of the points made in the novelization would have been in the movie as well, such as more back-story for Sybok, a better explanation for what the Barrier is and how the Enterprise safely passed, etc. I'd also fix the ending to be closer to what Shatner had originally envisioned, with more menace and spectacle than just a light blob chasing Kirk.
TUC- Lots to fix here, unfortunately. Fix the cheap, rushed look of the production, particularly the re-dress of TNG sets. The entire middle portion of the film needs to be tightened up. As much as I'm not a member of the "Star Trek Intergalactic Politics and Intrigue" fan club, I would have made more of a point to highlight what a huge deal this incident is for the Galaxy and spent less time on Kirk kicking beasts in the knee-genitals and Uhura thumbing through books to learn to speak Klingon. I would completely jettison General Chang and create a more menacing, evil Klingon nemesis. Chang is more like an annoying a$$hole at a cocktail party or school board meeting than anything. I would remove all the clunky, self-indulgent Shakespeare and literary references. I'd probably even change the title of the movie to something less pretentious.
GEN- I don't know. This has been talked about to death. I love the thematic content of this movie, and I believe it has the best visual "look" besides TMP and maybe TSFS. That said, I think there are some enormous plot holes around the Nexus that would need to be addressed. I'd also like to see the Enterprise D have put up more of a fight than it did vs. the Klingon BOP. I'm not going to type any more. I could go on forever.
FC- The scope of this story ended up being too small, at least for the expectations that I had. I have seen a number of people post that the Borg/Starfleet battle is "TEH AWESOME!!!11" but I think it's one of the most disappointing things in the movie franchise. I'd have expanded on that a little more, creating more of a sense of urgency and scale than the brief, ineffective scene that was produced. I'd eliminate or re-tool the idea of the Borg Queen. Maybe one of the assimilated crew becomes another "Locutus" type interface if you need a Borg in a speaking role...I don't know. The deflector dish scene can be improved to look more realistic (like not having sparks fly up in the "air" and crash back down to the "floor", maybe eliminating sound in the vacuum of space, etc).
INS- God help us. I don't have all day.
NEM- Again, this has been talked to death. You could have re-edited the film to eliminate the battle with the aliens on Kolaris III. B4 could have been handled differently (Lore, or maybe just not as stupid). Tighten up Shinzon's motivations for wanting to kill everyone and anyone. Include some of the character stuff that was left on the cutting room floor, particularly the post-wedding scene with Data and Picard. Give Data's death a little more emotional punch.
2009- Cut foolish scenes that were played for laughs (Scotty in the water pipes, Kirk getting caught under the bed, etc) and use that time to expand upon Nero's character, re-introduce the Rura Penthe plot line, and spend a few minutes showing us why Kirk is the way he is in this timeline.
Into Darkness- Slow it down a little...less action, more character and plot. I don't need 15 minutes of Klingons jumping out of ships and getting blown up by Super-Khan. That whole scene is actually tedious and not tense or exciting. Expand upon Kirk and Khan's relationship. Expand on Khan and Marcus's relationship. I don't mind the death-scene or the "Khan's blood" foolishness that much (I actually think the death scene, in a vacuum, is a good scene). ELIMINATE Spock yelling "Khan" and pretty much everything that happens after that moment. Let's have Spock acting more like Spock and less like hyper-violent psychopath. Frankly, I think I would have liked to have seen the Nibiru mission as a full-blown movie rather than just a teaser.
GEN - I don't think the writers ever really hammered out what they wanted the Nexus to be. They certainly knew the things that they wanted it to do, but that's not really the same thing.
And Kirk's 'perfect' world didn't ring true. I'm not even someone who thought his perfect place necassarily had to be captaining the Enterprise, but it seemed really odd that even little things like a mention of David didn't turn up - especially with the theme that the movie was trying to push.
And Kirk's 'perfect' world didn't ring true. I'm not even someone who thought his perfect place necassarily had to be captaining the Enterprise, but it seemed really odd that even little things like a mention of David didn't turn up - especially with the theme that the movie was trying to push.
There's a lot of good material in Into Darkness. The main change I would have made would come at the end after Kirk's death (which also worked for me). Basically, I'd have kept Kirk dead (which would shake things up massively) and Khan surrender to Spock when he realized he'd been outsmarted. (Maybe Spock convinces the Vulcan survivors to take Khan and his people in -- they are both the last of their kind.)
Oh, I'd have found a way to leave Pike alive. Maybe he's just near death and hospitalized, but he recovers at the end.
Agreed.
You mean a long space movie with long stretches of spaceship-watching accompanied by symphony music and driven by the presence of an implacable alien object?
Right. TMP is nothing like 2001. Nothing at all.
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Spoken like a true "old fogie."
The difference of course being that you are not a respected film director, nor have you worked for Star Trek or any other franchise in any meaningful capacity. Your opinion amounts to that of a fan, not someone involved with the production. That's not to say your opinion isn't valid, just that in the realm of opinions that matter to the production of a film, this one doesn't really communicate much beyond "Waaaaa, they didn't make it the way I wanted them to!"
Yep, you're all by your lonesome.
Figures.....
Seriously though....
Sure, there are flaws in the movies. And in the shows. But I would'n't fix any of it. I love those movies, each in their own particular way, warts and all.
You're not alone. The flaws and failures...make them what they are
. Easy to second guess in retrospect. That said, V had a lot of unrealised potential (still one of my fave Trek films), INS is a mess (really bad story), and NEM could have have done with a sharper focus for Shinzon than 'I'm your clone and I hate you (and Earth)'.
You never cease to piss me off. I'm entitled to express my opinion and you never miss a chance to comment on it in some disparaging manner or other.
I really am fed up with your shit.
Time for me to reach for the "ignore" button.
Some people aren't aware that immediately after its New York premiere, Kubrick cut about 18 minutes out of 2001. If only Wise had done (like)wise.
In any case, the "long stretches of spaceship-watching" that remain in 2001 are of two types. The first type is the graceful waltz that concludes with (i) ship entering space station, (ii) different ship entering moonbase. The other is the Khachaturian-accompanied shots of lonely Discovery with its lonely crew on their way to Jupiter. Both are of a whole different character than either the drydock sequence or the extended V'ger images (both intercut with reaction shots - something 2001 saved for very special peculiar circumstances during the final segment with David Bowman alone).
Get this person a time machine!
Would be great if we'd gotten the aborted TV series. Not sure how it would work out for a feature film series?
I agree this would have been a great way to make the main characters play a part in the climax, and would have been an interesting end to Spock's arc in the movie.
Only problem is: no more Spock!
